I have just been reading another article talking about how the price of retirement flats drops when they come back on the market after the person who bought it new either dies or moves into care

keepcalmandcavachon

If they were marketed without the extras such as mentioned upthread such as -
part exchange, helping to organise the move, decluttering sevice and other incentives,
not to mention the VIP treatment aimed at potential buyers when a complex is launched, would they even sell as well when new?
When all that is gone the next buyers are simply comparing these apartments with other apartments on the market.
The whole set up is very well thought out as regards to targeting their potential customer!

You make a very good point, but isn't that so with all first resale of a new house? One of DD's friends a slightly fey, completely non-practical woman is about to buy a new flat because of all the add on bells and whistles. the resale price does not interest as she is planning to stay in this house well into old age. She is 50 at the moment.

Perhaps the Flat lease owners could put a package together for the selling relative to buy in that will make the flat comparable in attractions and bells & whistles to compare with a new one.

DD lived in a town where there were a close of houses and flats built in the 1930 as properties for retired people. There is a service charge for outside maintenance and a emergency phone line, but the occupiers own their homes freehold, although I think there is a Covenant in the sales documents that says all purchasers have to be over 55. When these houses come on the market they are snapped up and we actually considered buying one ourselves because they were much bigger than the average retirement apartment. But they come on the market so rarely they sell very uickly.

Silvershadow

DaisyAnneReturns

I have no problems with having chosen the retirement flat I currently own. It works for me and my children are aware of the "difficulties" when selling these. Some "difficulties" are definitely self inflicted, e.g. starting at an exorbitant price, some will have been explained when you buy a flat.

Some people's expectations are very high! Just because the larger south-facing corner flat that gets the sunshine, overlooks the garden, is the larger of the two sizes in the block and has been nicely updated sells well, it does not mean a carefully maintained, smaller, inner flat overlooking the road and getting little sunshine will sell for the same price. It pays to be very conservative in explaining what you will be leaving and ensure those you are leaving it to are aware of the way these properties work.

I think you’ll find that there are prices discrepancies from new on the two options you illustrate. Bigger flats, better views, balconies all cost more from the start we found.

Yes, Silvershadow. I'm sure that would be true,

If they were marketed without the extras such as mentioned upthread such as -
part exchange, helping to organise the move, decluttering sevice and other incentives,
not to mention the VIP treatment aimed at potential buyers when a complex is launched, would they even sell as well when new?
When all that is gone the next buyers are simply comparing these apartments with other apartments on the market.
The whole set up is very well thought out as regards to targeting their potential customer!

I have sold 2 retirement flats in the last 4 years, my father's at a loss of £25000, and stepfather's at a loss of £17000 (although that is double the original sale price). The maintenance charges were £250 (warden controlled) and £650 a month (for extra care). I know McCarthy Stone extra are is over £1000 a month now.
In both cases my relatives were safe, happy, with company and clubs/day trips etc.
I think the flats sold relatively easily because they were sunny, ground floor with garden access, near the entrance and my father had purchased a parking space. One sold in 3 months, the other in a year.
I think they are a brilliant idea, and don't know why many are hard to sell - although position definitely makes a difference.
Another block nearby is run by a different company and you have to sell it back to them when you leave. There is a fee of 1% per year to 15%, and you sell for what you paid. Your maximum maintenance charge liability is 3 months. This is much more attractive to me. You aren't landing your heirs with selling problems at all. I wonder why more companies can't do this, I'm sure the market would improve.

DaisyAnneReturns

I have no problems with having chosen the retirement flat I currently own. It works for me and my children are aware of the "difficulties" when selling these. Some "difficulties" are definitely self inflicted, e.g. starting at an exorbitant price, some will have been explained when you buy a flat.

Some people's expectations are very high! Just because the larger south-facing corner flat that gets the sunshine, overlooks the garden, is the larger of the two sizes in the block and has been nicely updated sells well, it does not mean a carefully maintained, smaller, inner flat overlooking the road and getting little sunshine will sell for the same price. It pays to be very conservative in explaining what you will be leaving and ensure those you are leaving it to are aware of the way these properties work.

I think you’ll find that there are prices discrepancies from new on the two options you illustrate. Bigger flats, better views, balconies all cost more from the start we found.

Why not look on a site such as Rightmove Wyllow under rentals. See what retirement apartments are renting out for in your area. Make tentative enquiries of McCarthy and Stone too. They do have proper balconies as the one MiL owned had room for pots, two chairs and a small table. Plus, she got involved in the communal garden somehow.

Yes, all good warnings, but in this case I visited my friend many times in said sunny flat and looked around the dark ground floor ones.
I’m finding the new info on part buy part rent et al very interesting…my info is 2 years old except bits I looked up.
Also this ‘free for 5 years’
Very dodgy!

I have no problems with having chosen the retirement flat I currently own. It works for me and my children are aware of the "difficulties" when selling these. Some "difficulties" are definitely self inflicted, e.g. starting at an exorbitant price, some will have been explained when you buy a flat.

Some people's expectations are very high! Just because the larger south-facing corner flat that gets the sunshine, overlooks the garden, is the larger of the two sizes in the block and has been nicely updated sells well, it does not mean a carefully maintained, smaller, inner flat overlooking the road and getting little sunshine will sell for the same price. It pays to be very conservative in explaining what you will be leaving and ensure those you are leaving it to are aware of the way these properties work.

I think, if I was in that position knowing what I now know, I’d rent a pre owned retirement flat privately. The owners will negotiate on price as long as the service charges are covered for them. This is what we did while trying to sell MiLs flat.

Of course, McCarthy and Stone also now offer purchase, part own or rent. So you take your choice.

OldFrill

McCarthy &Stone (and others) offer incentives with which pre-owned property owners can't compete. Currently one such offer is 5 years without service charges. There will be various incentives they don't advertise to get the potential purchaser to seal the deal. The developers have far more leeway than owners (who as well as potential service fees to cover may well have an exit fee to pay) to reduce prices and offer incentives.

Then after the five year are up you will pay huge service charges to cover this loss!

McCarthy &Stone (and others) offer incentives with which pre-owned property owners can't compete. Currently one such offer is 5 years without service charges. There will be various incentives they don't advertise to get the potential purchaser to seal the deal. The developers have far more leeway than owners (who as well as potential service fees to cover may well have an exit fee to pay) to reduce prices and offer incentives.

People seem to be missing the point here.

Rising service charges are the problem. If a flat comes with a £5,000 p.a. charge it is hard to sell.

I wouldn't go near them. White Elephants in the property market.

After reading all of these posts I think the way forward here is if you need the security of a retirement flat/ complex is to rent one and definitely don't buy.

It is a good avenue. Having lived in a block of flats before, it all depends on having a good management company running them, lifts always working. and really good sound insulation, for flats for people of all ages can be very noisy.

The flat I lived in before looked all very nice, but had thin walls between flats and no carpets in hallways and stairs so people noise at all hours. Those all add to costs as a lot of blocks of flats done have well insulated walls, floors, ceilings noise wise.

I suppose to depends where you live, which bit of town it is, for those sort of flats locally are more expensive than Mc and S.

As far as I can see, McC & S flats never come with balconies. (To me, the ‘Juliet’ is not a balcony, it’s just floor length windows with bars across.

Not far from us are several blocks of over 50s flats, but not McC&S or any other ‘umbrella’ as far as I can see. A good many have proper balconies, and the location is very convenient, on an excellent bus route, and with everything more or less on the doorstep, including the hospital!

So when I’m a fair bit older, and in changed circs., this is one avenue I might just explore.

Norah the problem is far more than condition.I have seen these flats up for sale and they are in excellent condition. The previous occupany may only have been there a year or two.

Like the case that triggered this thread. Some people cannot even give them away.

M0nica

Wyllow3

You have to be aware the level of care offered. To offer "independent living" means you are not interfered with and live your own life until and unless you buy into greater levels of care either from within the place or outside sources.

They are not care homes and people who go to the one I know go out and about into the world with their cars if stillpossible just as if they lived alone in a house but with the security of 24/7 management.

Remember people you meet there may still be 94 and still a with us and bright as a button but cant care for a house but want company and no worries on living alone and maintenance unwanted callers/ thieves, or to cook if they dont want to decide that morning. It allows a situation as pointed out above where you can stay a lot longer than isolated with responsibilities at home before care home options necessary.

My friend who lived there died at 90 and had she been at home would have been straight to a care home well before then. It took the pressures of both her and her son, family visits were outings not desperate practicalities to sort.

I dint want to do that to my family and would be scared and isolated. "Staying ing my ow house" is not actually a priority for some of us. But I do my research well and if the place has gone downhill its a no, but tbh becuase we dont have excessive places the flats both do sell, but also have to keep up to the mark as regards care.

The service charges are to deliver the upkeep of the whole building and all the facilities, fresh new carpets, decent food (a good lunch a fiver) and thats why they are high.

local McCarthy and Stone has a 5 - yes 5 star - trust pilot rating currently If this remains then it's a green light at some undetermined point. Check out the 4581 reviews

We are all different?

Yes, but why don't resale flats sell? Everything you have written applies to all flats whether bought new, or on the resale market.

Price for condition, lower the price below others, it will sell, IMO.

"to try and sell quickly"

And they do have some people over a barrel when there is a crisis and the new buyer is desperate and will pay up as they need to move, as opposed to a planned move and beating them down on the price - and, remember, they have to persuade the family selling it to accept a lower price than they had hoped.

Actually a big yes to forcing them not to charge a lot when the flat is empty, as they have no motivation to try and feel quickly, do they?

Families are often better off selling through an estate agency - but being realistic.

I'm trying to tell you, yes there is a resale problem with some of the flats I know but it *does depend where they are and how nice inside and how such competition in the area for flats.

But...in general here, the housing market its admittedly very very slow indeed.

Of course it's a huge problem - one can only attempt to minimise it. I do think some legislation around what they can charge relatives for an empty flat actually is more than appropriate, given that they have often helped the one who had left buy the flat in the first place

(ie, the reduction in your own house value if you use their help by them selling your house for you and moving you and giving you time to do that, they have cashed in there so....

Wyllow3

You have to be aware the level of care offered. To offer "independent living" means you are not interfered with and live your own life until and unless you buy into greater levels of care either from within the place or outside sources.

They are not care homes and people who go to the one I know go out and about into the world with their cars if stillpossible just as if they lived alone in a house but with the security of 24/7 management.

Remember people you meet there may still be 94 and still a with us and bright as a button but cant care for a house but want company and no worries on living alone and maintenance unwanted callers/ thieves, or to cook if they dont want to decide that morning. It allows a situation as pointed out above where you can stay a lot longer than isolated with responsibilities at home before care home options necessary.

My friend who lived there died at 90 and had she been at home would have been straight to a care home well before then. It took the pressures of both her and her son, family visits were outings not desperate practicalities to sort.

I dint want to do that to my family and would be scared and isolated. "Staying ing my ow house" is not actually a priority for some of us. But I do my research well and if the place has gone downhill its a no, but tbh becuase we dont have excessive places the flats both do sell, but also have to keep up to the mark as regards care.

The service charges are to deliver the upkeep of the whole building and all the facilities, fresh new carpets, decent food (a good lunch a fiver) and thats why they are high.

local McCarthy and Stone has a 5 - yes 5 star - trust pilot rating currently If this remains then it's a green light at some undetermined point. Check out the 4581 reviews

We are all different?

Yes, but why don't resale flats sell? Everything you have written applies to all flats whether bought new, or on the resale market.

My parents live in a small retirement complex. They are much sought after and don’t stay on the market for long.

Silvershadow

Well your relatives might have been waiting to die Purplepixie but ours were not.

And you don’t know us!

My MiL and all her friends, 90 residents, were totally happy in their retirement home which my mil likened to a hotel.

One size doesn’t fit all. Yours and you might have hated it but not everyone did/does.

I’m so happy for you and your relatives. We are not all the same. Have a lovely evening.

You have to be aware the level of care offered. To offer "independent living" means you are not interfered with and live your own life until and unless you buy into greater levels of care either from within the place or outside sources.

They are not care homes and people who go to the one I know go out and about into the world with their cars if stillpossible just as if they lived alone in a house but with the security of 24/7 management.

Remember people you meet there may still be 94 and still a with us and bright as a button but cant care for a house but want company and no worries on living alone and maintenance unwanted callers/ thieves, or to cook if they dont want to decide that morning. It allows a situation as pointed out above where you can stay a lot longer than isolated with responsibilities at home before care home options necessary.

My friend who lived there died at 90 and had she been at home would have been straight to a care home well before then. It took the pressures of both her and her son, family visits were outings not desperate practicalities to sort.

I dint want to do that to my family and would be scared and isolated. "Staying ing my ow house" is not actually a priority for some of us. But I do my research well and if the place has gone downhill its a no, but tbh becuase we dont have excessive places the flats both do sell, but also have to keep up to the mark as regards care.

The service charges are to deliver the upkeep of the whole building and all the facilities, fresh new carpets, decent food (a good lunch a fiver) and thats why they are high.

local McCarthy and Stone has a 5 - yes 5 star - trust pilot rating currently If this remains then it's a green light at some undetermined point. Check out the 4581 reviews

We are all different?

My mother bought a lovely spacious 2-bed retirement bungalow. In 5 years the "warden support" went up from £15 to £40 a week. The service went down from a daily walk around and social gatherings to nothing more than checking on bins and gutters etc.
When she had a fall, the alarm did not answer for an hour, by which time we had the ambulance come and gone.

It took a year to sell, and that was to another owner from Surrey trying to cut her costs, during which we had to continue to pay the charges The site manager kept taking my viewers to other homes for sale that she would get commission on.
A number of her neighbours were renting from heirs unable to sell.
Having said that, the charges did cover all buildings insurance, garden maintenance, external repairs and replacements (e.g. all the doors and windows were upgraded and communal carpets replaced).