The Vaccine

I'm not an anti vaxxer but I am concerned about the length of time for testing and I know that several professors have said that the vast majority if time is waiting around waiting for money, permissions, reviews etc. I think the bit that concerns me most is the amendments the government made to the Medecine Regs here: www.gov.uk/government/consultations/distributing-vaccines-and-treatments-for-covid-19-and-flu/consultation-document-changes-to-human-medicine-regulations-to-support-the-rollout-of-covid-19-vaccines Paragraph 5.

I commented on the consultation at the time. it allows unlicensed, but not untested, medicines to be used. Although I agree the test times may be shortened I would like to know what the legal difference is between licensed and unlicensed. I'm not likely to be in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd tranche so maybe I'll feel better about it after that.

Protecting the NHS is a very poor reason for deciding to have a vaccine or not. At 64, I'm way down the list but am happy to wait until all those who are terrified of catching Covid19 and all those who are actually at risk of death if they catch it (a very small proportion of people) have had it before I get it myself. That way it will be well tested when I have my jab. Always of course relying on them telling us the truth about the outcome of vaccinating vast numbers of people who have either had the disease or aren't at risk from it. What are the chances of that I wonder.

I shall have it as soon as I can. I think that it will be the only way that we get our lives back.

My DD said that the vaccines originate in research for a SARS vaccine. That didn't turn into the predicted pandemic, so the pharmaceutical industry stopped putting money into a possible vaccine but the universities went on researching. So the Covid vaccine hasn't sprung out of nothing but emerged from that research. It seems that, if we do manage to stop this virus, it will be thanks to unknown, not particularly well-paid scientists, working away in university labs. But the important thing is that the vaccines do have a lot of research behind them.

Alegrias, you are doing a great job, don’t be put off by tiny blip which was understandable in your haste to put the facts out. You continue to give good sound facts and figures and to instil confidence in the worriers and doubters.
The more of us that have the vaccination the safer we’ll all be

We are 77 and 78 and have vulnerable health issues so will both have the vaccine asap when it is available for our age group.

Feel hugely grateful to the scientists who have worked so hard to develop the vaccine and just hope there is a big take-up of it.

Lazyriver all your family will happily be vaccinated, so what does it matter to them if their carer / teacher / dentist etc are not?

This is what terrifies me, the discrimination against those who for whatever reason make a decision not to be vaccinated. Even before the vaccination is available we are being judged, and effectively threatened. I do not believe in conspiracies, I have the flu jab annually, I've had the pneumonia jab.

I'm not anti vaccination per se, I don't believe that the majority of people not ready to have the vaccination are, and I have nothing but respect for the volunteers who have tested what is a completely new vaccination, I just don't believe that there has been adequate testing within the timescales. A couple of hundred volunteers is a very small number for a vaccine that is to be given to billions of people.

What I know as a fact is that when I have to start a new medication, I always have side effects which sometimes are not only unpleasant but dangerous (e.g. I have a documented allergy to Warfarin which landed me in hospital for 7 days). With 21 drugs to combine with, I do not feel confident that there is enough information to allow another chemical which is largely untested to be added to that mix.

Daftbag1 I think you may well find that your medical team will advise against you having the vaccine.

Alegrias2

Reading conspiracy theories on the internet does not constitute doing research.

Listening to people who know what they are talking about is a good idea though.

The problem is how do we know you know what you are talking about? There are lots of comments on this site that I wouldn't trust, on both sides of the argument. Mostly it's the ones that say "of course it is a personal choice but if you don't have it you are being selfish/foolish/ reckless. Delete where appropriate. It is my choice to have a vaccine or not because only I know my personal circumstances. How dare anyone try to make me feel guilty about my decision.

Deedaa, that is quite possible but the discrimination is starting already before the vaccine is even ready. Qantas for example will require a vaccination certificate to board a plane. They will not be alone.

People within this group are very clear about their opinions and expectations of others. Employers may start issuing requirements in respect of expectations. It's actually very frightening.

Probably not.

It is a serious topic and needs careful thought. I am 80 next month and disabled since I was 46. I have never had the flu jab because I have GBS/CIDP and have reacted to some meds in the past and am reluctant to put into my body something new and unknown, but I have not seen my children this year and I miss them. I have been housebound since my husband died in 2009 and do not go out alone. (the pavements here are too narrow for my wheelchair anyway).

Today, my youngest baby (52) is undergoing surgery. I cannot see her for two reasons, the lock down and the distance.

If having the flu jab enables me to see my children, then I would take any risk to do so. It would be heart breaking not to see them again. That is the only reason that I would have the coronavirus jab.

GrannyRose15 you are demonstrating that you haven’t done your research if you don’t consider yourself vulnerable at the age of 64, because you are, that’s why you’re in one of the vulnerability categories, and you will be offered the vaccine early next year (about February probably). You can of course make your own decision, this is a democracy - but I’m surprised at your statement, most people would consider that protecting the NHS by having the vaccine is a key factor in their decision, as protecting the NHS means protecting our own and other people’s lives, and not just from Covid.

GrannyRose15 Your medical advisors also know your personal circumstances, and they also know more than most people about the vaccines that are being developed, so I hope you will discuss it with them before making your decision.

The Oxford vaccine, for instance, was already in clinical trials before it was tweaked when the CoVid19 virus first appeared, so it has had longer in development that it first appears.

Hi GrannyRose15

It is my choice to have a vaccine or not because only I know my personal circumstances. How dare anyone try to make me feel guilty about my decision.

Not trying to make you feel guilty and if you are genuinely a person who can't have the vaccination then of course you on't have it

But making it personal choice is tricky.

What if we all make it our personal choice not to have the vaccine?

Where would that leave us?

anewstart

Never in a million years.

Am totally anti vax and never had my children vaccinated, they're now healthy adults with their own children who also, have not been vaccinated.

I come from a 'medical' family.

Have you lived somewhere like Africa or India and seen the children and adults who are living every day with the results of infectious diseases like polio and measles? I have, and it’s not pretty.

Of course, you might say they’re the ‘lucky’ ones. Many others are in their graves at a young age due to these awful diseases. It’s such a privilege to be able to refuse vaccinations.

Wow, thank you LauraNorder, that was really nice and much appreciated

You would have been quite right to blast me EV, I didn't pay enough attention. You've got to 'fess up when you get it wrong. That'll teach me to multitask

GrannyRose15

Alegrias2

Reading conspiracy theories on the internet does not constitute doing research.

Listening to people who know what they are talking about is a good idea though.

The problem is how do we know you know what you are talking about? There are lots of comments on this site that I wouldn't trust, on both sides of the argument. Mostly it's the ones that say "of course it is a personal choice but if you don't have it you are being selfish/foolish/ reckless. Delete where appropriate. It is my choice to have a vaccine or not because only I know my personal circumstances. How dare anyone try to make me feel guilty about my decision.

You've assumed, GrannyRose15, that I'm asking you to believe me. I don't expect you to believe me any more than I expect you to believe the people who start their posts with I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but.... or who tell us we need to do our research. What I would hope is that you would look at what people like Sarah Gilbert are saying about the vaccine work they are doing. Or look at the posts from FoghornLeghorn who will actually be involved in the vaccine rollout. Then you don't need to believe anything - you just need to look at the evidence and make an educated judgement.

I'm not trying to make you feel guilty about anything. People will be unable to take the vaccine because of medical circumstances. But anybody who is just not going to take it because they don't understand how important it is, or choose to believe misinformation, won't get any empathy from me.

cant wait

GrannyRose15. I totally support your right to choose. I suspect that, for many, a not compulsory vaccine might be effectively compulsory if they wish to do things like travel or work in certain industries. Time will tell.

I myself am happy to let a lot of people have the vaccine before me. It gives a chance for any significant issues with it to emerge before I consider putting it in my own body.

I expect you all have received the same letter from the NHS about having the flu vaccine. What has made me cross is the letter that accompanied it. I feel insulted about the content and phraseology. I would have liked to have made it a separate post, but do not know how to post in the AIBU?

The letter is from the Government Medical Director for Primary Care It began: 'I'd like to remind you to book an appointment with your GP practice or pharmacist to get the flue vaccine'. It goes on to give reasons for having the vaccine, availability etc. It says that even if you had the jab last year, you still need it as flu varies each year.

I have never had the flu jab as I explained before. Being housebound I do not mix with people much anyway.

I look upon the accompanying letter as an insult to my intelligence and dignity. It is headed: Help the NHS save money on letters like this(referring to the above flu reminder) and please bear in mind I did not need that letter and I do not suppose anyone did:

'Small things can make a huge difference to the NHS, especially when it comes to saving money.

You may not realise how much sending printed and posted letters to patients costs, but it runs easily into 100s of millions of pounds a year - and worse still the environment pays a very high price too.!

Simply switching to digital communications will help reduce this expense - so we all win.'
Then it goes on to talk about switching to digital.

I have been online since 2005, and you would think I had refused to go digital. I did not ask them to send a letter about the flu jab anyway, and this could easily have been incorporated in that letter.

* A couple of hundred volunteers is a very small number for a vaccine that is to be given to billions of people*

Where do you get the couple of hundred from?

Tens of thousands of people have received a vaccine

It’s not discrimination if ( for reasons other than medical) you choose not to have the vaccine and as a result, consequences flow from this decision such as it being able to fly Quantas ( or whatever) . It’s called accepting the consequences of a decision you make and not stamping your feet and saying it’s not fair .

Well actually not all that many. 100.000 people volunteered but there are at least 3 vaccine trials, so perhaps a third involved with each trial. Of those- 33-35 thousand half will have to be given the placebo . So actually about 18 thousand trialing each vaccine. Not a huge number.
I do think those people berating anyone who thnks they may not have the vaccine are being unreasonable. Given the short research period, the small number of volunteers and the varying information being gathered about Covid I think freedom of choice is essential. No one knows if there will be huge side effects, no one knows how long the protection will last. If someone chooses not to have it and instead to continue to use distancing and other safety precautions that is entirely their right.

Worldwide, trisher

Far more than 18 thousand

I thought we were talking about accredited vaccines Lucretzia. Of course there are more people involved elsewhere, both Russia and China have vaccinated huge numbers before any safety procedures were introduced or proper trials run. Is that a model we need to follow?