NHS a sinking ship?

I agree with kittylester, teetime et al. I have heard the theory about running down the NHS before, I'm not sure how much if that is true, but don't rule it out. We have to pay more for our health service, there is so much available to us now and technology is constantly evolving at great expense. There is no easy fix if we want more we have to pay more. I am not advocating the American system by any means but there must be some middle way. There is more payment in France but their health service is also in difficulty.

We spend less from our GNP on the health service than for example, Germany France or Holland. They spend 2 or 3% more, sorry for going all Diane Abbot and not being absolutely certain of these figures but the point is, they spend more than we do.
We are a wealthy country and can afford to put more into the NHS. We should train our nurses, midwives, all health service personnel rather than import ready trained people from countries like the Philippines who need their own home trained staff in the same way we do.
Burseries for members of staff who are not going to earn a small fortune is a good investment. I'm happy for my taxes to be used in that way rather than in giving charitable status to private schools (for example)
I feel fortunate in having a good GP practice, cardiologist and rheumatology consultants, with their specialist nursing staff in support. I'm prescribed expensive medication with the aim of keeping me mobile and preventing me needing social care too early in life.
I do feel we moan a lot in this country, rather than counting the positives. In saying that, of course, I worry that if the conservatives get in with a huge majority the creeping privatisation of all public services will continue.

And do you really believe that if Labour or the LibDems got in the NHS would be miraculously saved?

Why can't it continue in its present form? That's just lazy right-wing propaganda to justify destroying it?

The country needs an honest discussion about what it wants. The NHS is having to cope with an aging population and increasingly expensive treatments, which might not offer value for money. We need to decide what we are willing to fund - and to raise taxes to pay for it.

The NHS prolongs life for the elderly, saves more premature babies and treats more people with previously incurable conditions than ever before, but treatment isn't paid for by a magic money fairy.

The LibDems won't form a government, but they could have enough MPs to make a difference (one day). They have already been honest enough to state that they would raise taxes to fund the NHS and social care, which is what's needed.

Was that question directed at me Ana?
I do not believe that either the Labour Party or the LibDems, or a coalition of those parties will win the next election. At the risk of being accused of supporting the conservatives, my reasons are because I don't see Jeremy Corbyn as a good leader of the LP, don't see him as the majority of the population would have confidence in as Prime Minister. I have the same lack of confidence in Tim Farron.

I do believe that either the LP or the LDems or a coalition of those parties would prioritise the NHS and its staff in a way that the conservatives won't. As my previous post suggests, I'm a regular user of the NHS. I can see the pressures first hand. It's still a fantastic service and I believe that the government should follow the lead of other northern european countries in providing it with more funding.
We also need society to be more responsible in the way we use the services.

X posted there daphnedill. I agree with your comments.

Ana there was a'complete redesign' and it was expensive, badly thought out and chaotic. In Newcastle it took over 2 years to implement as the proposed 3 CCGs became only 1. Mergers were originally forbidden but are now being implemented. In fact the whole process is still not finished with.

Well said, Iam64. I sometimes think that people are unaware how much people in other countries pay for their healthcare. In most developed countries people pay far more, either via taxation or private health insurance. I would rather pay more via taxation, because I do not want to condemn those who can't pay into a private healthcare system to a premature death.

Yes, my post was directed at you Iam and you have answered, thank you.

I'm interested in your statement that "We also need society to be more responsible in the way we use the services."

In what way?

Several posts before mine there, sorry Iam! Think there must be a time-delay on my PC this evening...

As a newly joined member of the LibDems, I agree with you about Tim Farron. Initially I had reservations about his evangelical Christianity and lack of support for gay marriage, but he's growing on me. I don't see him as a future PM, but I do see him as a principled politician, who is able to hold his own against opposition. Despite his religious beliefs, he's kept quiet about them and has been loyal to LibDem beliefs. To me, the values held by grassroots members and politicians, such as Norman Lamb, matter.

I've attended a few local meetings and I've never come across such a genuinely caring bunch of people.

Nick Clegg is still in there as well, daphne, as the Brexit spokesman.

I think Tim Farron and Nick Clegg have acted a good foils for one another.

I do think an hypothecated tax for the NHS makes sense and the LDs seem to be moving towards that.

Agree with both those statements, Gracesgran.
I am pleased that all the opposition parties are considering letting Louise Irvine of the NHA stand against Hunt at the general election.

nhap.org/nhas-dr-louise-irvine-is-progressive-alliance-candidate-for-sw-surrey/

Agree with comments about Lib Dems. I too have joined, I don't think they could or even should form a government, and they are not trying to, they are trying to get voters to recognise them as a party for strong opposition, a party that will ask questions in the house about those things which affect us all such as NHS. Tim Farron has also been brave enough to suggest a special 1p on income tax which will be ring fenced for health and social care, and I really don't see how anyone could possibly argue against that.

I absolutely agree with Tim Farron's approach, and the most important bit is ring-fenced. I'm sure there are lots of people like me who would be very willing to pay an extra 1p in the pound tax if we could be sure that's where it would be going.

The problem the Lib Dems have is the promise they renegaded on about student loans. It was such a part of their campaign and many voted for them because of it. I like the 1p tax idea but when it came to the crunch would they really stick with it.

Hunt asked if TM would give more money to the NHS he answered it by saying it depended on the Brexit deal -so I guess that's a 'no'.

Reneged, trisher?
Some people do consider them renegades as well because of what they did about student loans.

Well this sums it up for me! Thanks Nye!

Brilliant, trisher.

twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/861161800716386304

Worth watching Hunt saying they will meet the four hour target next year. What happens in the meantime?

This is why the NHS is in crisis. It's not a sinking ship; it is being deliberately sunk by the Tories.

voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/05/07/tory-voters-want-to-make-us-all-pay-a-fortune-for-healthcare/

The Tory NHS.

twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/861140538791256065/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fvoxpoliticalonline.com%2F2017%2F05%2F07%2Ftory-voters-here-is-your-governments-national-health-service-in-graphs%2F

GP vacancy rate.

twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/861142125953548289/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fvoxpoliticalonline.com%2F2017%2F05%2F07%2Ftory-voters-here-is-your-governments-national-health-service-in-graphs%2F