Bittersweet first Grandchild

DillytheGardner explains in her second message that her youngster's company is leaving the UK because of Brexit.
Good to hear MOnica's news about her DD's employer, and the information about the Italian doctors, but freya posts a warning note.
Specific goose, unfortunately there was nothing in the Queen's Speech to reassure us about workers' rights., so you could be right about the direction we are heading
Cindersdad, we don't yet know how bad Boris can be but we could find out soon, as people in this country have given him unlimited power.
Someone was looking for a new word for 'Brexiteer' to balance the derogatory term 'Remoaners', so what about 'Breakers', as now the UK is breaking away from the EU and potentially at the same time breaking up the Union.

Reading this thread has made me feel even sadder about the results of the votes for 'brexit'. We are now a divided nation - have been for the last 3 years and 'getting brexit done' isn't going to change that. Each side is still blaming the other for what is happening. I guess I find myself in the 'remoaner' camp but I hate that description. I feel sorry for those whose families are leaving and fear that mine may follow but I'm probably too old to go with them. What a sad state of affairs!
As for Boris keeping his promises or not - already there are signs he has plans up his sleeve that were not mentioned during the election campaign! Why am I not surprised.

Other parts of the world not country (I did proof read too)

I think you must take Brexit and your simple involvement completely out of the equation Dilly because the truth is your children may have wanted to leave and try their way in other parts of the country at some point anyway I think your BIGGEST problem is you had this overriding belief that like your own in laws and your own parents you would be close by your children and grand children all your life , and this is where your biggest mistake is
The biggest gift we can give our children is the confidence to follow their dreams and your children have done just this Take your feelings of wanting to be totally involved with them out of the equation and rejoice that they are brave and confident enough to try something new
My son and girlfriend went for a ‘look around’ NZ I knew in my heart they would never come back and 22 years on they are still there happy and secure why would I wish them back here in this cold dismal unhappy place
If I was young I would do the same
REJOICE FOR THEM and put your own feelings well behind you, they do not ‘belong’ to you any more after they reach adulthood. You have a great sounding relationship with them you will have lovely holidays and they with you and that really is that, once you get over the shock, as a selfless Mum just be happy for them

Our family is split on Brexit (85% remain) still believing that John Major etc. were right. However we have agreed to differ and be nicer to each other. As for democracy the referendum was won by trickery and the general election by more trickery. The vote count in the election was "pro-remain" but thanks to targeting disaffected seats with propaganda pedaled by the right wing media and the FPTP electoral system. An ineffective opposition did not help either.

Yes I am sour looser but remember how Hitler won power. Boris is not quite that bad but he cares for himself above both party and country.

I do hope that all who want to emigrate due to Brexit - or any other reason - succeed. My DS wanted to emigrate to Canada. For the life style and nothing to do with Brexit. But he’s unable to do so as he doesn’t have a degree and even if he had he wouldn’t have been guaranteed a job. The application system at the time there was in a mess and in the end, after several years of trying, the system was scrapped and he was told he’d have to start all over again. He’s still here (and doing quite well).

Dilly I saw your post from the Mumsnet daily email and wanted to share some solidarity with you but from a different perspective.

We have two young sons who are very close to my parents and MIL. We are incredibly fortunate that the boys grandparents are so involved and help us out being two full time working parents.

Sadly, if the economic forecast is correct Brexit will at best cause us to struggle financially and limit the opportunities open to the children as they grow up and at worst bankrupt my husband's business and severely impact the children's future.

We are seriously considering emigrating because of it, and I am heartbroken. I do not want to leave, especially for my parents who voted against Brexit and the Tories and who I think would find us going hardest. But we have to out our children first. I worked for some time with a US company and seeing the UK move away from a European working model to a more American one makes me very sad, already workers rights are being eroded, the evidence is plain to see. I am sad at what our country is becoming, I am so proud to be British and do not want to leave but the Britain I find myself in now feels very alien from the one I grew up in.

Congratulations on hearing you are about to become a grandparent, it is joyous news. And a huge hug - I know exactly how you are feeling, from the other perspective.

It is bound to happen, but it doesn't have to cause problems. My DIL is from Germany and has been here for years. Their son is in his 20's and has dual nationality and I am sure they said they could stay. They married in this country. They voted against Brexit so I do not know if they will stay, but it seems a bit drastic to leave at this time rather than wait to see, especially if they both have jobs. Is the maternity leave better where they are going?

glammargran: The Italians may have moved over here for work but for how long.
The reality of Brextit:
My nephew's partner is Spanish, been here 20 years has been trying to apply for citizen ship for her and her children. Although she has paid her way she is now finding it difficult to get any sense out anyone. She may have to leave England, my nephew will join her. This means my brother will lose his family.
This is the same for my husband's German boss and his family., who may have to leave and will take his business with him, making my husband and others redundant.
My son's company teaching 'English as a Foreign language' to EU citizens has been totally destroyed and his family are suffering, they may have to move to Ireland.
On the other side of the Channel my SIL parents leave in Spain are also struggling because of Brexit and the list goes on and on.

Our family near and far are totally effected by Brexit especially when the none movement of people comes into effect. The questions to the Brexiteers is 'WHY' what were you trying to prove or achieve? WHY when you voted you didn't think of the all implications of what will happen with 40 years of freedom to live and work in the EU. Or was it that you just wanted to win and to hell with the rest of us. You have nothing to lose so lets make the rest of the country suffer too. I just do not understand why we are where we are. All members of my family have worked very hard all their working life and also do not deserve to be treated in such a way.
I for one, whose family is falling apart because of Brexit, would like an honest answer, not a repeat BJs lies and false promises.
At the moment none of us can see a way forward, so we are just going to try and have a peaceful Christmas together by staying calm and carrying on.

I think it's been all too easy to blame Brexit for many things - real or imagined. We can't possibly know yet exactly how things will pan out.

Oh FFS - at this stage nobody knows what Brexit will mean and what will happen in the next couple of years. Bit premature to be skipping the country now - anyone who does not want to remain here is totally free to leave, and the sooner the better if that is what they think of the UK. After nearly a decade of austerity and more than three years of Brexit deadlock things are FINALLY moving on. Does nobody else think its time we get this over and done with and move on to business as usual? Anyone who pretends Brexit will be a cakewalk is a liar, just as those who predict apocalypic disaster are. I am ashamed of some of the British people who think we cannot possibly cope on our own outside of the EU. Give Boris a chance, like you would any newly elected Prime Minister (Tony Blair springs to mind) - it will soon be apparent whether he is going to keep his promises or not.

I have every sympathy for Dilly, our DGC only live 200 miles away, but visiting takes planning and we have played no part in their day-to-day care, which we miss.

Brexit penalises some, but helps other. DD is delighted that a huge increase in research funding for science and industry has been announced. This is the sector she works in and it makes her job much more secure.

By the way, we all voted remain.

Brexit or not, the labour market itself is vastly different to when we were young. There are no 'jobs for life' now, less manufacturing and more competition in service and information-based work.

The job market is international too, so people follow the opportunities. The tradition of families living in the same area for their whole lives is very much diminished. There's always the option of upping sticks and following your kids!

Freyja Just read yesterday that Italy is experiencing a brain drain with 117,000 Italians leaving last year, 21,000 of them moved to the U.K. favouring it over other E.U. destinations.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/italy-suffering-brain-drain-as-800-000-seek-fortunes-abroad-565llkbzj?shareToken=7957c7b5c7fca15e958832f22d0f7b7b

Read' Eu Ciizens rights after Brexit'. Answers lots of questions .

DillytheGardener
Europe is not the other side of the world.Before becoming a member of the eu did not stop people coming to live in the UK no more than its stopped Brits going to live in Europe.No one will be 'deported' if that's what is in your mind.
Think of those who have GC thousands of miles away, doesn't stop them visiting.Come Brexit there will be nothing to stop you seeing your expected GC or your son and DIL coming to see you.

Also echoing what Summerlove said. I love seeing my parents but once they came on the only weeks DH could get off work so we didn't get to go away. We all got over it but try to avoid it!

DillytheGardener - congratulations on your first Grandchild! I hope you are still reading this thread.

My parents no longer live in the UK, and our girls are likely to be the only grandchildren. They haven't said very much to me, but I expect the distance is difficult to them - particularly when friends comment on how they must be so sad they are missing out,

In fact, I think my parents have more hours with our girls over the course of a year than if they lived in the UK. When we are all together it is such special time for all us and we really do make the most of it.

Here are a few things we do to stay close. It's not much help for the baby days, my our girls do really have a very special relationship with my parents.
- we each make marmalade and give each other a jar. Taste and compare!
- GPs make videos of themselves reading poems or telling jokes, singing songs. I personally find video chat doesn't work terribly well as children get bored. Don't be disheartened by this. My girls love the videos.
- Some weeks we will either send each other a recipe or make the same one and talk about
- Grandparents send newspaper clippings, cartoons etc. We love getting these!
- GPs also wrote little stories for the girls. When they haven't been around for things like a first day at school they wrote a story about their first day at school etc.
- Send each other maps of our favourite places.

Since we talk about my parents on an almost daily basis the girls are incredibly close with them.

I think we could afford a yearly visit to both sons, although thinking I may visit the elder son twice next year to see dil whilst pregnant and then see baby once he or she is born.

Just make sure you get explicit permission for these visits.

Hi Dilly just wanted to say both sets of my grandparents lived miles away one lot in Dublin the other remote Cornwall so saw them in holidays etc a couple of times a year but we got letters and gifts etc throughout the year and the excitement when due to visit was huge .so don't be discouraged

Very sadly those who voted for Brexit have ruined many lives ...they may not care about this, but families have been split, people have had, as in your case, been left little option but to move to other countries. I have many friends who currently live in the EU (ex pat Brits) whose future is uncertain but who cannot afford to move back to the UK. Unlike EU Citizens living in the UK, the rights of UK citizens living in the EU are uncertain as a lot of their rights remain in the hands of the countries in which they live. I hope you can visit as often as you can afford to (without too much hassle with visas, permits, etc !)

I want to apologise to Dilly for the way she has been treated on this thread. I bet she wishes she had never mentioned Brexit (the reason her children are moving away being actually very much secondary to the pain she is feeling at being separated them and her future grandchild). Even after she took time to explain in detail the circumstances, she has been queried and dis-believed. I hope she takes comfort from the good advice given and ignores those trying to score political points at her expense.

Bellanonna and Hi there- call us Winners!!! British ones at that

Nannan2. Her company flies her all over the place for work. Last week she sent me lovely pictures of her standing by Niagra Falls which is lit up at night. No, they certainly would not let her use the plane for a social call. I appreciate what you have said about flying at night but it is still flying. I used to fly when I was much younger and I realise we all have to die sometime but to me that would be a terrible way to go. I just cannot get on a plane anymore. I would be terrible till we landed and would probably be a physical shaking wreck. She knows this and she understands. When you have a phobia it is difficult to explain to other people who cannot see the problem and I could not even force myself to go and be “desensitised”. I know you were trying to help so thanks for that.

Two of our grandchildren a three and a half hour drive away. We all have very busy lives and so we probably see them about six times a year for 2 nights at the most. Those times are very special for all of us. We don't argue and never take each other for granted.
Once a year we see both of our children their partners and our four grandchildren for a family weekend at the seaside. We hope we are building memories to sustain everyone . We all enjoy the time together.