That's it then. Finito.

They arent here Tedber, DS1 is NC of his own accord, believed to be in the uk and DS2 is als NC of his own accord and currently in China.

As far as I can tell, they are NC because their manipulations failed. There is little point trying to extort something from smeone who doesnt have it in the first place!! Seems like they realised and wrote me off, their choice!!

Omg Labazzalst.

Phew just read it all and update. All I can say : the day they left I would have been dancing in the street!

I don’t care who they are but if anyone expected to dictate how I live my life they are gone!!

Are you now saying your two sons are now back home and bullying you? Show them the door!! You have done your best. You have raised your kids. Now is YOUR time. Ideally with family but not at any cost.

Be happy

Yes you're right Starlady. I wish they had been honest and upfront before expecting to come here and that I would suddenly become a slave.

Looking back, I do remember her laughing behind her hand and saying she hoped I wouldnt find the cultural differences too hard! Wow. The cheek of it! I have always believed that "when in Rome do as the Romans!" and expected her to realise that our ways are different. This was never discussed, but it's my thoughts in hind sight. I also thought she would integrate into the Chinese community here- but she did not.

Who, when they are 15 years off retirement can afford to jack in their job and pay money that they did not earn to support a child they did not birth when it's parents are both working? I am a little annoyed now when I look back because I feel like there was nothing I didn't do for them. We all ent over backwards for them, but nothing was good enough- because they were waiting for a property to arrive in their laps!

The stupid thing is, if I was wealthy and could afford to do it, I probably would have- just to see my Grandchild. In the end everyone loses- so they should have been honest in the first place.

Every Chinese girl who thinks a white man comes from a rich family needs educating that this is often not the case. Every Chinese girl who wants the benefits of not having a Chinese mother in law, cannot expect an English mother in law to fulfil what the Chinese one would have culturally done!

I have two sons who married Chinese girls and now both are estranged. Living in China has made their expectations of what family should provide exceed what we are able to do- and made them feel entitled to a house and a slave. They are also exhibiting genes from their abusive Dad, my ex- unfortunately. A fact that I earlier omitted as I didn't want to face it. Six months later and another son with a Chinese wife and a baby that I'm unlikely to see and I am extremely realistic!

:Gmum our kitchen area is so small and our house was so full that we couldnt all get around the table if the littlest ones didnt get in first. Looking back, I dont see what I could have done differently as our house just isnt big enough for an extra two adult chairs and a highchair.

I would not have minded if Dil or DS offered to cook but they did not. I was not happy to be kitchen slave, but you are right- their expectation was that I should be full time child carer, full time skivvy and pay for all GS's clothes, nappies etc....But none of this was explained before they came to live with us.

Yes I was naive. I had no idea that becoming a Granny to a Chinese girl's baby meant that my life was over, that I was not supposed to work or have a life outisde of the kitchen. I had no idea that they expected us to buy them a house! They threatened us that if we did not buy them a house, they would not be there for us in our old age.

All of it is unfair because we are not rich in any way and could not afford to do what they were expecting. If only they had been honest about their expectations before leaving China, a lot of pain and confusion could have been avoided!

I'm so sorry things have come to this unhappy place, Lava. However, I think it's better for all that they are out of your home. I'm glad you got to say goodbye to little GS and have a "cuddle" though.

IMO, this was a matter of mismatched expectations, miscommunication (between the young couple, as well as between you and them), and, of course, outright lies, as much on DS part as DIL's.

I agree that some culture shock may have been involved, too, even if just "family culture shock.' It seems both DS and DIL expected you to be like her mom and failed to respect the fact that you're an individual in your own right, w/ your own needs, beliefs, etc.

Perhaps DIL's MH is also a factor? She/they may have thought you would understand that. But none of this excuses her rude behavior.

I'm sorry DS isn't communicating w/ you right now, but he probably doesn't know what to say or wants to work things out w/ DIL before he answers. Better, IMO, than when he lies or confuses people. Glad you've stopped messaging him. Please be patient and wait till he reaches out to you.

Are you treating her like a child? Sitting up to the table, being late for meal times your dinner gets cold. Is she adult or a child, sounds like your overpowering and controlling her. Its your sons wife his child let him deal with the problem get on and work and let them sort their marriage out. Is your son still hanging off you, I guess she can see this. We have chinese friends they do not like western food much, also mother in law does all the child care, daughters go to work. A different culture, would stop the mealtime thing. Get on with your life.

@Cosmos thanks. After talking it over with friends and family, I and they don't think I could have done anything differently. All agree that what they did in trying to erode my boundaries was unfair.
@NfkDumpling thanks, this is the first MD that Ds has not bothered. Well, I think he did buy me something last weekend but decided not to give it. (I thought I saw a MD gift in a bag last saturday but it could have been for her)
DS is known for telling porkies in the past, but never like this before. I really feel I cannot trust him, which is sad.
@Gramaretto Traditionally in China, the mother has the baby and hands it over to the MiL who is responsible for all it's care and upbringing. As we are not in China (therefore not bound by Chinese customs), I agreed to care for him between 12 and 2 (taking a long lunch) but she never actually let me do it. It became clear early on that she was punishing me and using Gs to do so. It would have been a sacrifice to me to take such a long lunch as it would have made me need to work longer later on, so I continued to work as usual while she didn't allow me to have him.

Is it just me or can someone explain how Chinese GP can look after DGC if they've had no experience looking after children?

I’ve been following this thread with incredulity. It sounds like a doomed relationship and you probably will see your son again - eventually. Maybe even with your DGS, although this will depend a lot I think on your DiL’s parents. I believe that in China many GPs look after their GC for the first six months at least and usually its the husbands parents.

If your DS isn’t usually prone to telling porkies perhaps he’s just trying desperately to hold his marriage together. It’s something only he can sort out. I hope all turns out for the best for you - whatever the best is!

You did your best at the time. If anything was wrong your ds should have said. There isn't much you can if you dont communicate with each other. It does sound as if things were not as Dil expected, but that's not your fault, you don't know what Son said to her. I too would be worried, but there is nothing you can do but send letters and cards etc and hope they reciprocate. Meanwhile, enjoy having your house back and try not to stress, they will either sort it out or not but no couple or person for that matter wants advice unless they ask for it and that's a minefield as well. Good luck.

Assuming other's also think DS is to blame for not telling the truth, any advice in tackling this would be great. (If DS talks to me again anyway- it occurs to me that we only heard one accusation from DiL but it's likely she could have made up many lies about us that we cannot defend as we don't know what they are)

@Bambam yes I do blame DS for not telling the truth about anything.
Possibly the most hurtful thing they did was lie and tell us they had named GS after my husband (Ds's stepdad) and we only found out the truth when GS was ill and DS was on the phone to the GP... We would not have minded what name he had- Chinese, English or any- but flattering us and telling us he was named after my DH! :O It was such a shock finding out in that way- and DS just made an excuse that that's what his name WILL be when he becomes British...Except I checked that out and it costs over a thousand pounds and needs both parents signatures. I can't see her ever agreeing.

They were'nt penniless. They had money from their jobs in China- and savings too. They just never gave us any money towards food. He agreed to, but never did and DH thinks it was because she objected.

Many times I saw DiL look at me with SUCH disdain and even disgust when I was cooking. She asked me why I didn't buy a slow cooker because I was stirring bolognese! Basically everything I did was wrong, but she never offered to cook once!

DS has behaved abominably. He did not even tell us he was going to a hotel. I messaged him to tell him his stuff was gone at 6pm that night to see what he would say and he just said "oh is it?" Then "I might not be home then"

I made my boundaries perfectly clear before they came, but they did their best to erode them. DH and I still feel like we're being held to ransom. Probably if we threw enough money at them, they would come back. But as my DF says, they would control us for life. He says don't give into them- and I won't.

If DS did lie about all of those things, then yes it's very much totally his own fault. I don't know if he lied or if they just assumed. He even said he thought looking after GS would "cheer me up" :O

What they expected, I could never deliver. Because they expected me to buy everything for GS - nappies, clothes, shoes etc PLUS be his full time carer. There's no way I can afford to give up work full stop and I definitely CANT afford to buy things if I don't earn money!! The whole thing is TOTALLY ridiculous and I'm so glad I can share it here or I think I would have gone mad.

I am now relaxing, thanks so much. They will never stay here again. I will never trust DS again- at least not in the near future. Thanks to everyone who has communicated on this issue. It beggars belief that anyone could be so cruel, but we will at least have a relaxing weekend.

I read your first thread and this also and in my opinion the person to blame for this fiasco is your Son, who had promised his wife that you would buy them a house and car and also that you would give up your work to look after their Son, all of which he had absolutely no right to do so.
They arrive penniless and although you had bought them everything which they would need for the baby, this was not good enough, your house was not good enough, the food which you provided was not good enough and you were not good enough.
None of it lived up to her expectations because of the blatant lies that your Son had told her.
How dare he do this and try to make you feel guilty because you didn't acquiesce to his lies?
As far as I can tell, you and your family did your best so I would feel absolutely no guilt that your Dil is returning to China and he is staying in an hotel, their choices.
You have handled this far, far better than I would have, so relax, get your life back and don't have them stay with you again.

Thanks all, so much for all the understanding messages and good wishes, yes @NamsNanny we had some lovely times at least. No DS has not been in contact, still. No I never did get to the bottom of the white foods. Gs was given a lot of low nutrient foods, but then white rice is the staple food in her part of China. So maybe it feels normal to eat lots of white foods?

@aggie thats so sad and shocking! Imagine just being an incubator and never enjoying your child! I do think that's the problem with DiL, unfortunately. But no one warned me! I do feel miffed because I made my boundaries clear and I feel like they thought they could overide them.

@TillyBelle thanks so much! I do feel we've done everything possible. I feel for the older generation too. My Dad is pretty devastated and we havent told my MiL yet Just can't face telling most people, including relatives but will have to soon.

aggie....your story does add meat to the bones (background) of Lavazza1st's predicament!
A completely different type of thinking.
Other posters have said similar things.

Lavazza1st.....I was trying to clarify for bbell that op's cant really be expected to give all sides to their story, they are afterall looking for an outsiders point of view of their problem.
I wouldn't expect anything different.

I did think that Tilly might have the best understanding of the situation, and I hope her advice is useful to you
For what its worth IMO, you were lucky your experience with your other sons gf came first, so you had a yardstick (sotospeak) to judge the latest sons relationship by!

Also, I think it must be as you described, an anti climax for them to leave that way. 2 months in each others pockets then (as someone else said) pffft!!

I hope you get updates or photos of the gc in the future, as it sounded as if you had some good times with him.

As an aside, did you ever get to the bottom of the white food incidents?
A bit of a daft question I know but I had wondered if it was something to do with observing traditional customs, as there are foods that are eaten for good luck or special occasions (like turkey at Christmas or hot cross buns at easter) in China.
Anyway, I hope you hear from your son soon.

Lavazza1st
I quickly looked at the thread before this when you wrote about when your son and his wife and child were with you. It is obvious that you have had an extremely difficult situation to deal with and that you have been trying to do whatever you can to help the young mum feel comfortable - from buying Chinese foodstuffs from the Chinese Supermarket to observing CNY and trying in every way you could to make her comfortable. I found that on the threads people were quite tough on you as if you did not appreciate how hard it was for her in a different culture. I disagree, you described many things you did for them all which were very kind indeed. I really don't know how you managed, as you had to keep working from home as well. I think you have done incredibly well. It was such a difficult situation and sometimes it is not possible to understand and help people, no matter how much we try. I would have found it hard not to have felt very irritable if a mum kept leaving me to clear up her baby's high chair table after his meal, apart from her total disinclination to help with anything at all!
I do not think that looking back to see what you think you "should" have done to prevent such a difficult situation is any help to you or being fair to yourselves. You know you did your best! You know you spent a lot of your very hard-earned money on the baby, and you welcomed them with open arms. She seems to have very special needs, for reasons we probably will never understand. She certainly came thinking her in-laws were buying her a house and a car, I remember! I actually find that rather a lot to take in! I'm sure she must have known this was not a reality!
Please try to relax now and give yourself time to get over the ordeal. None of what happened is your fault. I hope the young mum will soon settle and feel more on an even keel and resume child care responsibilities like any mum. I suspect she has some hurdles to get over and may prefer to go back home. We can only pray that your son can get a job soon and she can feel happy and, most importantly, that the little boy will be safe and grow healthily and happily.
Good luck Lavazza1st! You've been on a marathon which took you round several mazes! But you got through. God bless you all. I really do pray that your family will be together happily.

I remember a mother on the maternity ward , about 40 years ago , who demanded that the nurse bottle fed her baby , I asked her why she didn't want to do it , was she in pain , sad , or tired . She looked at me in amazement and explained that her MIL was on her way from China to fetch the baby , her first child was already with her own mother in China ! She had no intention of looking after the child , she had done her bit by incubating it . She had a high powered job and her Husband was busy too , but I did think things had changed

@NamsNanny yes there are always two sides to every story, but I can't tell hers because I don't understand her or what has gone wrong from her perspective as she refused to talk.

From the moment she arrived to the moment she left, she made it clear that she did not want to open up. When my son told me she did not want a Mother in Law, she had been here a few weeks and was staying in our house. As a result, I felt hurt and cut off, but I still tried to make an effort to be friendly. I only really saw her at meal times as she stayed in her room and avoided contact with our family and also her son.
I don't remember anyone saying she was a spoilt brat, but I will say she acted like a princess...she wouldn't even clean the highchair after her son had made a mess I asked her to a few times and she just walked out. I shouldn't have needed to ask, really because she should have been cleaning up after him as there was a lot of extra cleaning because they were there and I was doing everything!

Looking back, I think we should have insisted on more video calls with her to see if we were compatible. When we used to video call with DS she was usually absent or busy- we thought that was because she was in China and had stuff to do, but that was the case here as well. She simply did not want anything to do with Ds's family. Living in our house though and not wanting anything to do with anyone, just became rude.

@bluebelle No both sons are not married to Chinese girls. One is, the other isn't but she stayed here. If the girl wants to go on Mumsnet and share her side of the story I don't mind. Although she has probably shared her side in China on whatever site they use...and I can't defend myself there either.
We do feel more comfortable thanks, though it's a shame. I did REALLY try to support her and gel with her, but she would never open up to me and my son said she didn't want a Mother in Law!

Bluebll..Please don't take offence, as none was meant.
I only reacted in a jocular way to the tone of your post.

There may be two sides to every story but all we know is that which is written here.

So I think it is of paramount importance to read what is written and create a dialogue based on that.

Even then. you yourself have pointed out many times that people on a virtual site such as this, may be making up fairy stories and even not exist so we could be talking to ourselves!!
It seems to me we can only ask questions and read the answers and reply in that context!!

I KNOW I'm no expert, so I prefer to concentrate on the actual written word, I find it easier than trying to second guess the sub text!!

I'm happy to say, you are free to do as you like.

I may be wrong, but where did the op say that her dil was a spoil brat?

Be that as it may, I'd like to make it clear that no where did I in anyway shape or form call the DIL a spoilt brat, nor would I ever use that phrase, or agree with someone who did use it!!!
It's empty of real meaning and adds nothing to the discussion.

FYI I haven't shown any opinions one way or the other and I'm not unsympathetic towards the sentiment you show in your post. Just haven't made a firm conclusion,

If I was making any point at all it was that somehow people don't always read and digest the original posters replies and dive in (most likely not you).

Therefore they don't get a better understanding of what is being expressed, and that benefits no one.

Enough said.

Just like to make it clear your contributions are always valid!!

No I didn’t Namsnanny but thanks for asking
I obviously see this different,y to you None of us know the real facts because in a situation like this you get the slanted view of only one side The poor girl can not answer for herself we don’t know why she was brought to England what the link to China is (both sons are married to Chinese girls) we know she has a young son we don’t know if she has post natal depression she was brought to a foreign country away from family and friends and familiar life and put into a strangers house with different customs, different food, and maybe she just needed a bit of understanding and help to be able to intergrate in her own time or maybe you are all right and she’s the spoilt brat Lavazz sees her as.
Somebodies got to sit on the fence and balance the thread so that we can see a possibily tiny bit of both sides it’s very very rare in life that problems are caused by just one person but by one person and then others reactions to that person I m just trying to balance it
Obviously the son loves her she is his choice and they have a little son I hope they can build a life and now with the problem removed hopefully Lavazz and her family will feel more comfortable That’s all I was saying

Don't know why you say that sodapop I thought my post was perfectly valid

Don't know why you say that Namsnanny I thought it was a perfectly valid post.

Bluebell...6.45am, did you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning? ?

@Tillybelle I suspected she was trying to push my buttons fairly early on, but I would not give her the satisfaction of getting a reaction. I have talked to friends, prayed and kept on living my own life as much as possible in order not to fall prey to her plans.
Most people you can reason with, find a way forwards to work together- and I am pretty flexible so thought there would be no problems.
I too hope and pray he will find a way. I think he would make an excellent single father as he does all the childcare anyway. He's so capable that he would be able to manage a full time job and care for Gs in the evenings/weekends with our help. I think if it came to it, the government would help with childcare/tax credits or something? Not really sure how it all works nowadays, but if necessary we can find a way. If the worst happens and she does indeed take him back to China, I think we will never see him again- or not for a long time. We just have to trust and wait, knowing that nc with her is the only option, whatever the consequences are. Thanks Elle