Kumon ruining our holiday

:Your holiday , could say your rules. I think it is totally out of order, maybe a paper twice whilst on holiday but that is it. If it was me I would just do two a week and then when the holiday is finished face the consequences.

The holiday will soon pass . I would do the paper as early as possible and then forget about it . I used to teach my children maths through play . We would go shopping and they would have to find the cheapest beans etc . Could tell Mum after the holiday that you did other little linked projects and these were better or as good . Parents do face a lot of competition .I am a nursery nurse in a private setting . Every evening we do detailed handovers - nappy details , all food eaten ., focused activities . what a child got out of a trip , monthly next steps ...all done via very focused 'play '. Parents evening for a young child are 3 times a year and the 4+ have a cap /gown graduation which a prof photographer coining it in and the nursery too via commission .These are examples of how the system sucks . She may feel the same but as a child she has no voice . I would try and give her a positive side to this too as her school work may become better / easier .

I read this as never heard of Kumon www.kumon.co.uk/maths/#pill_programme_widget_age_groups_2_2
but it says 30 mins? I'm beside myself as getting DGS for a couple of days and planning all sorts of treats as having them them to ourselves will be wonderful - they haven't wanted to stay as they did before they got older. But I would never even hint at a less than united front with their mother my d-i-l. They are her children, not yours and will pick up (ferociously cunning creatures that they are to use anything to their advantage) at any discord. Even if I think I know better I support the parents (and the other son). Make it fun, lots of rewards stars charts treats when she does it. Try not to view it as a chore but an exciting journey - and to cheat - sorry but if do it and she tells on you (and I have been dropped in it by mine) the ramifications can go on for years - usually via their partners. For the sake of your son put your own feelings aside, and dont be judgemental. Have fun and enjoy your time with them.

Please do not follow the suggestion to do the work for your GD. If you do, you are teaching her that it is quite all right to cheat and afterwards to lie to her parents! I'm sure all the posters who suggested this course did so out of pity for the child, but jumping from the fat into the fire is not going to help.

If she were my grandchild, I would if possible say to her parents that this stupid maths system is counter-productive, as it is making the child simply hate the subject, and as she will have to do it for the next ten or so years of her life that is decidedly not a good thing.

You say your DIL is controlling, so maybe this is not an option, but surely if you are tactful and tell your DS and DIL that you really have tried to follow their instructions, but that you feel it did more harm than good, you could get them to discuss it. It does of course mean you have to avoid the slightest hint that you are criticising DIL.

Kumon isn't about helping kids understand maths, or becoming more confident in the subject. But it may help certain children become better and quicker at passing maths tests. This is important for some parents who have high aspirations for their offspring at any cost.
But for a 7 year old on holiday? Ye gods!
Just dump the Kumon in the trash and concentrate on having fun with your DGD.
And when you get home, ask your DIL how much paperwork she undertakes on holiday!

I'm all in favour of education and there is some evidence showing that repeating maths sums regularly does seem to produce results. However, it certainly does not foster a love of learning which is more important, in my opinion.

I would have refused to take the maths scheme on holiday with me and told the parents that I would do incidental learning instead like working out change when shopping, looking at railway timetables etc. as that's more relevant to things she will need in real life.

Perhaps next time this situation occurs, you could print some ( hard adult) maths off the internet - enough for an hour a day -and give it to them both and say you want it completed on your return as they will have plenty of time to do it as there's no childcare to do! Or maybe you could ask them to work out how much this scheme will cost over the years and calculate how many tins of beans, bags of chips, cinema tickets etc. they could have bought instead!! Suggest they give you the exact number of examples as the days your granddaughter has spent completing the Kumon papers- 365 x ?

Would they really stop you seeing the grandchildren and give up the free childcare? Your son is to blame equally for this situation and maybe if he sees the ridiculousness of it he may agree to end it, at least during holidays.

I remember the year my daughter was sitting the 11 plus. I let her play all summer, while my friend had her son sitting indoors doing 11 plus papers. My friend said I would regret it. I didn't, she passed, her son didn't.

No wonder so many children and young adults are suffering MH problems.
Isn’t Kumon Japanese in origin? And didn’t Japanese schoolchildren begin to suffer increased MH problems decades ago?
Our poor hothoused children.

When our grandchildren came to stay or visit us all school work was forgotten. Enjoying ourselves was the priority, didn't do them any harm, in fact they did quite well although not super academic children. Life's too short to be doing an hour Kuomin!!

I agree wouldn't do it yourself and lie -bound to get back to parents. To sit with her and help when necessary seems reasonable and stop after an hour and own up to parents tellig them that a y more would have ruined holiday (if it hasn't already! ) Btw what is the other little girl doing while she is doing the papers? I think it will build up resentment in both of them -one because her sister doesn't have to do the work and the other because she has to kick her heels waiting to go out and have fun.

grannypauline - I'm so with you on this - thankfully my daughter recognises Kumon for what it is - a money-making racket allowed to flourish by the Tiger mummies whose kids are tutored up to the gills, the outcome of which is that lots of other kids ' parents feel they have to join in. Somebody should blast Kumon into the stratosphere and kids should be able to develop at their own pace - there would be far less mental health issues among teenagers and it's true that such problems are on the rise, in parallel with the over-tutoring of children. I'm sure that you as a retired Maths teacher can think of really inventive ways to give your gc much more than Kumon can.

Do the work with her. Talk to her about the fun of figures - after all it was your choice so you must have liked it for some reason. Share that joy and interest. You might find your delight rekindled!

I am sorry that this Kumon set of papers have become such a stumbling block. I wonder who is operating the system. As its Japanese its presumably franchised out to people.
Wikipedia says:

Kumon Programs
Kumon offers its math and language learning programs, primarily English as a foreign language or the local language. Kumon's basic principle is that the students reiterate familiar content in order to compensate for existing deficits and to provide a foundation for further successful learning . The tempo is determined by the children themselves. Afterwards, they use their own examples to work on previously unknown topics. The aim of the Kumon method is to successfully teach children independent learning. In addition to the technical knowledge, the method promotes concentration , self-reliance and self-confidencethe children. The Kumon learning materials continue to evolve, incorporating the experiences and impressions of students from around the world.

Seems something has gone wrong some where.

Forget the maths. Dump it! She is on holiday FGS! Maths may not be her best (or favourite) subject but she will have time to improve on it as she gets older - but she will never have this holiday time with you again. Yes, there will be other holidays, but not this one. She is just a child, let her forget about maths for a while and just enjoy her holiday with you. If her parents are disappointed in your action then I think I would be equally disappointed in their insistence of a rigid tutoring regime in the holidays.

My friend's daughter had a Tshirt that said 'when the going gets rough I'm off to Grandma's'. yo Granny!

The huge irony in this is that we force our primary age children into learning till it is coming out of their ears - and then when they get to secondary school they repeat it all during their first two years. So what was all the rush about in the first place? Madness total madness.

Yes and when you try to teach it at secondary they groan and say 'Not again!' That happened with Science - in Primary School some of tge most exciting experiments had already been done so it was hard to find new things to enthuse them. And they hadn't fully understood so it did have to be repeated.

Great messages. And giving me lots of support thanks.

Update: GC was asked to do Kumon paper after breakfast and went straight to bed and refused to get up again.I phoned son and he said we needn't do it after all!! DIL phoned later and said GD had to catch up by Thursday

Son said that she does Kumon in order to help her focus and that she needs to learn to focus on boring things for an amount of time because that's what she will face in real life. The guy has been brainwashed - this is not how I brought him up!!

He also says she is top of her class in Maths! Not sure if Kumon achieved this but I doubt it as I've looked at last year's Maths books and there was a lot of shape and logic work (which Kumon doesn't do) as well as the number work.

I like the suggestion that the parents do homework while they're on holiday. And other ideas too. But my hands are firmly tied. ANY suggestion to DIL that she is wrong or misguided would I believe cause endless trouble.

I can see that she wants her girls to do well but she and I are not on the same track at all.

Other granddaughter doesn't miss the attention as she is also doing well at school and is being prepared as a sports star with loads of training.

It is my view that DIL has projected some of her own failings onto older girl and has found Kumon to occupy the younger one. She hopes (as we all do to some extent) that her children will reflect her own good parenting and choices, so it seems unwise to challenge her even though I disagree with her over several things. I have tried debating and discussion but she just gets angry and self-justified.

I don't think DIL has the confidence to actually help her own daughters. She doesn't read to them or help them at home apart from this sort of drill. I now remember that elder daughter had to do test after test (from bought test books) as well as set homework.

DIL watches endless BGT and Strictly (and their spinoffs) and children watch cartoons etc. I pointed out to my son that he should have more educational progs but he says they work hard enough (actually he could be right there!)

If I were you, and other techniques to make it less miserable have been tried and failed, I would refuse to play bad cop.

I.e. if DGD said Im not doing it, phone her mum and tell her to ask her to do it, let DIL be the bad cop if she is the one being inflexible about it!

I guess they have you over a bit of a barrel - or you think they do - in that time with your DGDs might be conditional on you playing ball with something you disagree with.

I think you should not worry about that. By the sound of things they are more than happy for you to be taking responsibility for their children.

My DDs know that I will try to uphold their rules when their children are in my care; but they also know that there is an element of "My house; my rules" and raise no objections when some things are done a bit differently. If you are kind enough to take them on holiday then the parents have to accept your definition of a holiday.

I would just enjoy the holiday and when it is over and they ask about the maths simply say "Oh we were far too busy for that - we did XYZ."

Rather late in this discussion, but I would talk to your son / DiL and say that you do not feel able to do this.
Don't talk about your feelings around Kumon, or you'll get into a discussion about it instead of your grand-daughters.
If they say she will get behind, say you are sorry they believe that, but you cannot do this.
If they say you cannot take them on holiday / have them to stay (and they would have to be really daft to say that!) then say you will have to think very carefully about that, need time to do so, and ask them to do the same.
Your grand-daughter sounds old enough to talk to, say that parents get very worried that she should do well, and that the grown-ups are going to talk about it.

And don't worry about your grand-daughter's refusal - at least she has a mind of her own! You can let her know you sympathise without undermining her parents.

Have same problem with Kumon and 2 grandchildren.Seems dull as dish water.brightestchild has worked out repetitive pattern of sums and has arm across questions but gets everyone right.Negligible advantage outweighed by stress and pressure put on children who should be having fun.

I was thrown out of class by my maths teacher as a no hoper. I worked in the City as an accountant for many years. Still hate maths. I don't believe in forcing children to study. It makes them hate it. I loved studying fortunately, except the blooming maths.

If your dil is all for rules then as both a teacher and grandmother I can tell her that both calling a child stupid nd insisting on an hours work from a seven year old during the holiday could well be considered child abuse! Warn her this is not acceptable ! A social worker or teacher at school woild take a very dim view of both and redflag them as causes for concern. Believe it or not , kids have ‘rights’ today and in this case you may need to enforce them! Good luck

Speed it up....do it with her! If maths is difficult why aren’t you as a teacher asked to help her? Some people never get maths! I know this from experience.......I have a DPhil and can’t do maths to save my life! My kids both did double maths at A level and achieved A*.....they think it’s funny that I don’t understand maths!
Don’t let it ruin your holiday or worse the relationship with your grand children......my son was and still is(!) bad at English.....my mother in law taught remedial English......we asked her to help out......BIG mistake! He loathes her to this day!