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Estrangement

Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

(114 Posts)
Smileless2012 Thu 07-May-26 08:38:58

For those of us who've been living with estrangement for sometime and in many cases for years, we know how important this thread is.

The friendships we have made are our constant companions as we continue our journeys through our lives without the ones we have lost due to estrangement.

We have learned from one another that our estrangements don't define us and our desire to keep this thread going is as much for those who may not have posted before and maybe at the beginning of their estrangement, as it is for those of us who've been posting for sometime.

Our dear friend Babs posted the following several months ago and because it encapsulates so perfectly what we strive to achieve, I wrote it down for the OP of the next thread.

"We give advice in a calm and collected manner because we are removed from this storm, but when you are in it you cling to anything you think will get through to your child".

Thank you Babs for your wise and insightful words.

Smileless2012 Mon 25-May-26 08:46:47

Morning everyone, I hope you're all managing to stay safe in this lovely weather but I know that the heat doesn't suit everyone.

It's a piece of paradise here and we've been enjoying taking it easy on our decking and watching the golfers who brave the heat while we relax under large parasols.

Two of our neighbours are coming over for a mid afternoon BBQ before Mr. S. goes bowling this evening and will be bringing their little Maltese, who Poppy has been a lot more tolerant of since we lost little Pip.

As you say Yogin, none of us know what we'll do when we come face to face with our EAC until it happens. He may have nodded if we'd made eye contact but I avoided doing so.

No Whiff, I'm not a better person that you. Many scenarios have gone through mind over the years of what, if anything I would do if we 'met' and what happened on Friday was just one of them.

Well done for tackling those cobbles smile. I hate walking over the areas we have near here especially if I'm not expecting too and am in heels but it's a good excuse (not that I need one) to hold onto Mr. S.'s arm.

It's great that your UTI didn't spoil your holiday and that you received such good care. You certainly managed to pack a lot in and remind me of the Duracell Bunny grin.

We bought a cool mat for Poppy but despite our encouragement, she wont even stand on it which is rather frustrating when she's struggling with the heat.

Enjoy the sunshine if you can everyone and stay safe xx

Whiff Sat 23-May-26 10:49:13

Smiles glad you feel empowered and in control after 13.5 years . Like I said you are a better person than me. The chance of ever seeing my son again is really zero. I live in the north he lives in the south east. So I would never need to go anywhere near where they live . All the things I need are in my area.

Well had a good holiday apart from a slight hiccup. Tuesday woke with an UTI but Morecambe urgent treatment centre where brilliant. No urgent treatment centres in Lancaster. The nurse practitioner I saw was lovely and gave me some advice. She was only in her late 20-early 30's but had a hysterectomy said she didn't want kids anyway. But because of low oestrogen she had frequent UTIs and thinks that why I have had 3 this year so far. She gave me a through exam and 3 days worth of antibiotics and as usual my sample was clear it always is . On her advice booked an appointment to see my GP 1st June . Because I knew 3 days worth of antibiotics wouldn't clear up the infection . I phoned my surgery Thursday and spoke to the doctor and had a weeks worth of antibiotics delivery yesterday a couple of hours after I got home.

But you know me won't let anything stop me . Monday I tackled my nemesis picture above. The dreaded cobbles my stick slipped few times it was worse coming down. Didn't get to look around the museum as it was guided tours only and I can't stand still while someone whittles on hurts to much . Better when I keep moving .

When to Kendal as planned had a lovely time if anyone goes there you must go to the Joshua tree cafe . Food is delicious had baked gnocchi in tomato sauce with loads of melted cheese on top. And chocolate pudding and custard. I was so full only had ice cream for dinner because I need to eat to take the antibiotic otherwise I wouldn't have needed anything else.

There was a bus stop by the hotel which went to Lancaster bus station. Weather was awful during my stay but had give up trying to get to the maritime museum as it was rainy to heavy. Good job as it was closed.
Went to Morecambe on Thursday only stated 90 mins . Disappointed with the Eric Morecambe statue it was life like but not very big. Saw bus to Lancaster bus station so could it. Had mystery bus tour. Then went to my favourite place for lunch in Lancaster.

I liked Lancaster and the people where friendly and helpful. Hard on the old knees. But glad I went.

Sea goes out very far a Morecambe and they where filming The Bay but didn't go and see where.
Enough of my rambles . Take care all.

Yoginimeisje Sat 23-May-26 09:19:00

Oh Smiles, so it happened! We all wonder what we would do, my DD & I have spoken about that situation, but until you're there, you really cannot say. Fancy your estS nodding to his dad, he must have seen you first. flowers

Smileless2012 Sat 23-May-26 09:06:50

Morning everyone.

You summed up the situation brilliantly eddie It's so terribly sad that the person who literally owes his life to you is now just another customer in the supermarket.

I read your post out to Mr. S. who simply said wow; that's a perfect summary of where we are.

TBH it wouldn't have made any difference to me if our GS's had been with him. Like their father they're strangers to us, more so because we've never known them.

I have a temper too Whiff blush. It has tempered over the years but I didn't even feel anger which I was sure I would if I ever came face to face with him again, but apart from a momentary and slight heart flutter, I felt nothing at all.

I always thought I'd have plenty to say and judging by the expression on his face as he came toward me, I think he thought so too but he's not worth my time, my anger or my pain.

He got to the check out just before us and we could have queued behind him but I went to a another one. Mr. S. said he'd never seen anyone load and pack their shopping so quickly, as if he couldn't get out fast enough.

Perhaps the encounter was harder for him than it was for us.

It's been almost 13.5 years so maybe he thought I'd have plenty to say which I can't blame him for, because I always thought I would too. We wont mention it to DS whose the eldest because I said years ago that I would no longer get into discussions about his brother, unless he was worried and/or upset and needed to talk.

Bless him, the number of times his name's come up in conversation since then will be in single figures.

I'm pleased and TBH proud of myself for not speaking to him Bridey. I've always regretted responding to the email he sent two days after my mum died; I should have left it.

It was so wrong of him after years of estrangement when my grief for mum was so raw to get in touch. I was furious and I often think that that should have been my response; at least it would have been an honest one.

Doing something like that could give an EP false hope, that that might be the beginning of seeking reconciliation and when it doesn't happen, they could be left with worrying that their response was somehow lacking and that's why there was no further contact.

Thank goodness I didn't go down that road and neither did
Mr. S. when he did the exact same thing when his mum died.

It did draw a line Allsorts and one that I'm truly thankful for.
Our move here did bring us much closer geographically and the market town where we saw him, is where we have our flat and get our weekly shopping because we check the post.

So after 18 months of living here it was bound to happen eventually, there was always an inevitability about it and if it
happens again, it wont be the shock it was yesterday.

That's something we'll never know love0c. I did wonder if he'd already spotted us and was doing his best to avoid what happened but if that were the case, why did he walk down the aisle we were walking up? hmm.

What did surprise me was the difference of my reaction between yesterday and when my cousin told me my brother had asked her to pass on his contact details, which I have anyway, just before Christmas.

I had a panic attack, felt sick and burst into tears all in the space of 5 minutes before knowing I would never want to contact him again and then feeling calm and I suppose empowered.

Thank goodness that didn't happen yesterday as I just felt empowered when I refused to acknowledge his presence. For the first time in 13.5 years I actually felt that I was in control, because I was smile.

love0c Sat 23-May-26 07:24:58

Smileless2012 I do not know what to say? I wonder what your son thought or thinking today about the encounter?

Whiff Sat 23-May-26 06:11:17

Smiles you are a far better woman than me. I have a vicious temper as well as being stubborn. I still haven't forgiven or forgotten my brother believing the mother of his children over something that happened over 35 years ago. She lied even thought I had 3 witnesses to what I asked. He didn't speak or see us for 2 years. It must have been Mr W that sorted it out I can't remember. My brother hurt our parents deeply by what he did. He still saw them it was just us.

When he came to apologise I took him into another room and slapped his face it left a red mark and let fly all the things I wanted to say.

10 years ago my nephew didn't see me for 6 weeks because he didn't like i told him a truth. When he finally to apologised he had his face slapped as well and read the riot act. Neither my brother nor nephew hurt me again . But I have never forgotten or forgiven them.

If I saw my son he would get a punch to the face never might a slap. I wouldn't be so stoic and walk by like you . That shows how courageous you are a better person than me. Mr W was just like me and he would have dragged our son out side to have a very angry chat and most likely punched him .

When Mr W had cancer before he became terminal our son was 14 he drank a whole bottle of vodka one of his friends stole from his parents. He ended up having his stomach pumped. Worst thing the little shit didn't have a hangover. I grounded him for 3 months and made him promise to never to make me ashamed to be his mother ever again and he had to apologise to his dad . I went mad at him as he made his dieing dad even though no terminal he was dieing bit by bit every day feel worthless. He blamed drinking the vodka on his dad dieing that earned him another slap .

He hurt his dad deeply . And I have nevrf forgiven him or forgotten how he made his dieing dad feel.

Sorry your son made Mr S sad by that head movement. Your son was cruel to do that. But so glad you feel relieved after all these years of wondering what would happen if you saw your son and what you would do. I hope you and Mr S never see him again. It's been over 10 years but can't remember how many years for you since the estrangement and if I remember correctly he did it the cowards way like my son. But by letter not email. You must correct me if I got that wrong.

My son accused me of being manipulative and vindictive which I am neither but I am vengeful.

If any of the Wombles see me and asked why I left they will know exactly why. I have no tolerance left for bad and back stabbing behaviour .

Smiles I hope you and Mr S go forward knowing you got through seeing your son and can put a line under it permanently.
. But do tell your younger son as he will be very proud for you both.

Big 🫂 to you both.

Allsorts Sat 23-May-26 05:30:21

Smileless, I can only sympathise, you like me and others are strangers from our grown up children, they got what they wanted. I am glad it didn't upset you but it must have felt so strange but perhaps it drew a line as well. There would be little point talking to him. 💐

Bridey Fri 22-May-26 15:20:27

I have to admire your calm Smileless, cant imagine how i would react, has it left you wishing you had spoken to him?

eddiecat78 Fri 22-May-26 14:59:46

Gosh Smiles, what a shock. I'm glad it hasn't upset you. It's so terribly sad that the person who literally owes his life to you is now just another customer in a supermarket. Perhaps it is good that he didn't have the children with him? I think that would have been upsetting

Smileless2012 Fri 22-May-26 14:01:46

Afternoon everyone.

I hope you enjoyed your holiday Whiff and were able to put that awful experience behind you. I'm still struggling to believe that anyone could be so unpleasant shock. They know you for goodness sake but it looks as if you didn't know them at all.

Well I know some of us often wonder what we'd do and how we'd feel if we suddenly came face to face with our EAC; well we know longer have to wonder because it happened today.

I was ahead of Mr. S. when I saw him coming toward me in the supermarket shock. My heart gave the tiniest flutter as I looked straight ahead and ignored him so I don't know if he acknowledged me.

As he approached his dad, he gave a slight nod of the head which Mr. S. reciprocated.

I felt nothing and Mr. S. felt a little sadness but nothing more.
I don't know if it's a good thing to be so near yet so far from the son you adored and be virtually void of any feeling, but it is what it is and I can't help but be relieved.

Yoginimeisje Mon 18-May-26 09:43:54

Oh Whiff I feel your pain, that was painful to read! How very nasty of that group to do that to you, when what you should be getting is help, understanding and friendship from them all. Don't go back, not nice people, you are better off without them in your life. I am upset for you Whiff. flowers

I hope you are enjoying your holibobs and are putting this horrid situation behind you. I really can't believe people could be so mean! They need to be very ashamed of themselves and their group as a whole.

Yoginimeisje Mon 18-May-26 09:27:31

Oh poor Mr.S Hope his hand is better this morning and shame he missed his golf. Bikes are so dangerous, when my son goes to work on his motorbike, I am fearful, never read the local news when it says about a crash involving a motorbike. My son goes out on his pushbike too, same thing, I'm happy when he gets home.

Whiff Sun 17-May-26 10:54:48

I left the Wombles Friday for good. But there is one in my sit fit class and one in my move it or lose it class. If they ask me why I have left I will tell them plus what I think about the whole ridiculous thing. Especially as one is the mother of who started the Wombles.

Thank you all for your support and comments. Means a lot to me, this thread isn't just about estrangment by caring about each other in all aspects of our lives. X

rafichagran Sat 16-May-26 19:49:47

Whiff these people are ignorant and seem to like causing trouble. It's a shame the admin paid them any heed.

Yes what they have done is discrimitory and disgusting. Do you really want to spend your time with people like that?

I don't know who they think they are to be honest. They need each other as normal people probably avoid them. Hope you enjoy your break.

Allsorts Sat 16-May-26 19:17:24

Whiff, you must have felt ambushed by two people whom you thought of as friends, treating you in such a way, it was discrimination and illegal. You really are better out of it but I do hope they are taken to task for their behaviour. enjoy your holiday and obligatory ice creams.
Smileless, sure the ring will be a lasting reminder of dear pippin.

Madgran77 Sat 16-May-26 17:33:28

Smileless do post a picture of the ring when you get it. Would be nice to see it.
Hope Mr S is ok. Mr M got knocked off his bike by a driver several years ago and broke his collarbone; it was a narrow escape for him and could have been much worse. I now worry every time he goes out on his bike so I know just how you feel

Madgran77 Sat 16-May-26 17:29:10

Whiff This sounds like just a couple of people who are SUPPOSEDLY speaking for the whole group. Appalling rubbish they were talking as you know. Ignore them and if anything arises again I would suggest actually asking in the group if anyone has a problem with your disability! That will make them have to take responsibility for their unkindness and I suspect that will do them no favours! 💐

Bridey Sat 16-May-26 14:03:08

Thats appalling Whiff and also illegal, how hurtful to be treated that way, maybe those who complained should be the ones to leave not you.
Anyway enjoy your holiday.
Sorry to hear about Mr.S Smileless, certainly some idiots on the road!
Lovely idea for Pips ashes.

Whiff Sat 16-May-26 12:17:03

Finger decided to hit wrong button . But like my cleaner said it was a passive form of bullying. Which at the time I didn't think of that I was just angry that people had gone to the adminstrors think there are 6 and they talked about and how to handle the complaints against me.

Must have been Saturday last week it happened because I text my sit fit teacher if we could have a private work before class. I have been going to the class 3 years and asked her as she has seen various states of my HPX and I wear my lanyard during class. If she had any problems with me . She just hugged me and asked why so told her . She was horrified anyone would treat me like that. I go to 2 other groups and they have no problems with me. During those classes I tend to sit by the same people .

Yesterday I did text the one who started the group to just find out how many people had complained about. Didn't have a nice text back . So I said I would leave but wished them well.

I told my daughter what had happened she couldn't believe they treated me as they did.

I had written about it on my HPX group last weekend and one of our American members found the Wombles and read there constitution. Even quoted parts and said what they did was against their constitution. And he is right.
There main am is to encourage community spirit. Seems it doesn't apply to me .

I know a lot about some of the members as they have told me things on confidence because they know I would understand and have helped some with their issues. But I would never betray them. Friends tell me I have the sort of face that people feel comfortable telling me things. Had random strangers ask if they can talk to me . If its something I don't have experience in I try and point them in the direction of who might help them . If its something I have first hand knowledge of then I talk to them .

I am not upset over just angry if someone has a problem with me then they should have the guts to tell me .

Anyway better topic going to Lancaster tomorrow for a 5 days holiday so looking forward to that. Already planned to go to Kendal and Morecambe via train different days of course. Lot of things I want to see in Lancaster. Supposed to rain all week but that wouldn't stop me doing what I want .
Anyway better sign off. Take care all. 🙂

Whiff Sat 16-May-26 11:46:04

Smiles I am appalled at that driver's behaviour. Hope Mr S recovers soon. But he's back on his bike . I have 2 GN friends who I see once a month we had lunch trying out different restaurants. They live in towns either side of me . The one and her husband have electric bikes which they love riding but have to pick places without to much traffic. We are lucky here there are coastal paths that are for walkers and cyclists.

When you get the ring please post a picture of it . Lasting tribute to Pippin.

Today would have been our 45th wedding anniversary but not sad been laughing at all things that went wrong that day. It was hilarious some of the things. But it ended up a brilliant day full of love and laughter.

I have left the Wombles as you know it was a group I was member of and had good times with. Unfortunately don't know if this started at the plant swap a few weeks ago or had been going on for some time.

At the plant swap dogs where running around while we sat had tea and I made cake . 2 of the dogs hit a metal chair and startled me so my HPX kicked in and my limbs stiffen . I can still talk as I am conscious. There where people I hadn't meet before and once I could moved asked me if I was OK. So explained what happened.

I am sure it was Saturday last week had a text from one of the administrators asking to talk about my HBX as she called it when it's HPX. Then a phone could I meet her in the park. I said no if I was (excuse my language )in for a bollocking over some thing them had to come to my home. Then asked how many was coming it was 2 of them.

They came . Turns out people don't like me talking about my HPX as they know I am disabled. People have told them they don't want to sit by me and asked me to stop wearing my lanyard.

I pointed out if people ask me what's wrong I tell them . If people don't want to sit by me that's their problem . And I will not stop wearing my lanyard as its for my safety when out. I have a National Disability Card on a National Disability lanyard. Costs £20 for 2 years but you can get discounts from some shops. Plus on the back if a shop hasn't got a public loo I can use the staff one . If I collapse in the street or taken ill it has my photo, name and date of birth so easy to look up on NHS data base. Plus when I book assistant on the train or to a concert I am easy to spot.

They wouldn't tell me when or how many people have complained about me . They went . To be honest it was a cross between a cheesy rom com where they break up and want to do it in a public place in case one makes a fuss. But I made them come here.

Smileless2012 Sat 16-May-26 10:58:51

Morning all, hope everyone's OK.

Mr. S.came back from a bike ride on Thursday having been forced off a narrow road by some idiot in a van coming toward him and driving too fast angry.

He stopped and asked him if he was OK and told another driver who'd been coming up behind Mr. S. who was also good enough to stop, that he fell off his bike after he'd gone past!!!

Thank goodness he's OK but his right arm's in quite a state and he has a nasty gash on his knee. His gloves which are beyond repair saved his hand from any significant damage.

This is the second time it's happened and I've told him that next time he sees someone coming toward him at speed on a narrow road, he's got to dismount.

He has an electric bike which is so heavy I can barely move it, so it's a good job it didn't land on top of him.

He's out on it at the moment but said he wont go off the site. I can understand him needing to get back on but will be happier when he's back.

He should have been taking part in a golfing competition this morning, but had to withdraw which is a shame as he did so well in the last one; there'll be others but it is a shame.

Smileless2012 Thu 14-May-26 10:13:44

Morning everyone, I hope you're all OK.

Been a busy few days here. My dearest friend came up from Portsmouth on Saturday and went home this morning. We had a great time browsing the shops and Poppy really enjoyed going out for walks with her cocka Dolly.

S's niece has a business making jewellery from ashes so she's taken half a teaspoon full back and I'm going to have a silver ring made; a band with a royal blue band in the middle which will contain Pip's ashes.

It will be a while before I get it as she'll bring it up the next time she visits which wont be until the Autumn.

Smileless2012 Sun 10-May-26 10:20:18

Morning everyone, it's great to see so many contributions to the new thread.

It's lovely to see your post Jaffacake and to know that you're managing to maintain your relationship with your GC despite your D's behaviour.

I'm so pleased that you have managed to achieve that much needed emotional distance from her which will enable you to protect yourself from her abuse. There is never a 'good' time to be faced with such hostility but you couldn't have been in a worse physical and emotional place when she treated you so badly flowers.

Hello crazy smile. It's good to know that you continue to manage those difficult family relationships but it can't be easy walking on eggshells in order to maintain equilibrium.

It seems that for some even when the estrangement is over, the fact that it happened remains the 'spectre at the feast'. I hope you can continue to any repercussions at bay flowers.

Hilltop accepting how things are and that they will never change is never easy but necessary for us to be able to rebuild our lives. It's lovely to hear from you and to know that you're following the threads and enjoy our chats.

It's lovely to be told that these threads have been a lifeline Bridey; thank you for saying so and for popping on to say 'hello' smile.

These threads wouldn't be the same without your lovely rambles Whiff smile. Saying you're strangers doesn't sound awful because you are. We wouldn't know our GS's if they walked past us and we wouldn't know them either.

Our estranged children have become strangers to us too haven't they. They're not the people we thought they were and we've changed too. We had to in order to survive.

Goodness Yogin so Laila is 16; you must be wondering what she looks like now she's a young lady.

I have my dear friend here from Portsmouth for a few days so will be out and about. She has her Cockapoo Dolly with her which is company for Poppy who like us, misses little Pip.

We could never trust our ES again either Allsorts; once that's been lost it must be almost impossible to get it back sad.

Whiff Fri 08-May-26 21:27:04

Yogin a hard day for you . I have a friend my youngest friend she will be 16 in a couple of weeks and have seen her change from 13 year old into the confidence young woman she has become..She has battle health problems and starting a good college in September. Seeing her bloom into this young woman has been a joy . Her whole family are lovely .

Your granddaughter will eventually find out about her past especially once 18 . Plus kids are so computer literate they can access anything .

My son cut all his side of the family out of their lives . My grandsons will be 10,8&6 this year. Last time I saw the eldest 2 they where 4&2. Wouldn't recognise them now . I have always thought if they asked about family they have been told I am either dead or I don't care about them.

We are strangers and I would rather keep it that way .Sounds awful but I have moved on and my life is full. I love all the things I do . My daughter laughs that my grandsons and me have a better social life than she does .She always checks in advance if I am free for things . Usually see them once a fortnight.. But she checks on me everyday . Only days free this week is Sunday and Friday.

Seeing Babs and Mr B in August but like I told them don't expect to see them everyday . But I am looking forward to going to that area and exploring . When I change trains in London they I will need to go in a wheelchair as I won't be able to cope with the crowds and it will be the quickest way to get me to my next train.

Smiles I let Babs know about you quoting her. She has a virus at the moment just hope Mr B doesn't get it . But they are settling into their bungalow and happy they moved.

Anyway bedtime . Sweet dreams everyone.

Yoginimeisje Fri 08-May-26 10:10:59

Well today is my GD Laila's 16th birthday. I wonder when she will find out the truth of her past, that her dad is actually her stepdad, that made sure everyone that loved and adored her, and she us, her birth family, were cut out of her life in order to make sure he's son was the top dog in their family.

My estD will never understand the enormity of the pain she caused me, her mum that loved and adored her and her C.