Successful reconciliations & how you got there...

That Dr Joshua Coleman sounds worth listening to.
Many thanks for the reference.

I realise this is meant to be a positive thread. My experience isn’t one of total estrangement. It’s me who has distanced myself from a sibling who is greedy for more and more money, is extremely mean, boastful, self-centred and patronising but who I still love. I tell myself I am not at fault but I can’t bear the way he behaves and he makes me feel uncomfortable. He won’t ever change but I don’t like thinking we will never see one another again. We are so different but both stubborn but I believe he is fond of me as well. Add to that the fact that neither of us likes the other one’s spouse. There seems no way forward.

This is the estrangement forum Skydancer so it's to be expected that not every post will be positive.

Do you have any contact at all with your brother? You say he wont ever change so I suppose you have to decide whether having contact with him despite his faults, is better than never seeing him, or having any contact with him again.

You say neither of you like one another's spouse but that shouldn't prevent you from having some kind of relationship. You can talk on the 'phone, text and/or email and meet up without your spouses being there too.

As you're the one whose distanced yourself from him, if you do decide that you want to resume contact, the way forward will probably require you to make the first move.

I wish you well with whatever you decide.

Stillawhip, the letter you wrote, brilliant and got things on track. What would you go if the letter was shredded and posted back to you with the message, I've said no contact and I mean it, I've told the children you are dead.

(Haha, loving the Stillawhip typo, making me sound like some sort of dominatrix instead of the 'work-in-progress' part of my name that I was aiming for...maybe I'll change it! {smile}.
I'm so sorry Allsorts, that must have been devastating for you & your grandchildren, what a horrible thing to happen.
Apologies, I am fairly new to the forum, so I don't know your story or how long you've been estranged, and I'm not sure whether your question is rhetorical or not.
I am no expert on any of this, I can only go on my own story & what I did, so, if your question is serious.....I suppose I would honour her wishes for the time being & instead work on anything I could do at my end & that was within my control given the circumstances. She has clearly been incredibly upset by what has happened in the past to have such an extreme reaction, & I think I'd have a fresh, hard look at the lead-up to the estrangement & any part I had in it. Given the chance to wind time back, would I change anything I did or said? Do I regret anything? If so, why did I react like that & was it unreasonable of me? Should I recognise that & apologise for it? We always said we were 'playing the long game' and wanted to be the best versions of ourselves that we could for when he came back (yes, we always kept hope that that would happen). If you are happy that you are already that then I guess there is nothing more you can do apart from wait, but I knew that there were things within me that needed to change and so I focussed on those, as that at least helped me to feel that I was being proactive towards reconciliation.
Again, I am so sorry for your situation and dearly wish that your family, & everyone else's, are eventually reconciled.

Stillawhip.It did not happen to me but to someone that posted on here. No one situation applies to everyone. Both sides have to want reconcilliation.

OK, sure, just trying to answer what I thought your question was.

Has anyone partly reconciled and agreed to low level contact with a family member? Is it better than nothing if the problems can't be fully resolved?

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Great to have a positive thread for the new year, stillawipp, and am glad you've chosen to stick around with a slight rebrand! I always appreciate reading your careful thoughts I'm glad you were able to reconcile with your son, I'm sure he is glad to have you too! Especially after four years. I'd be willing to reconcile in a heartbeat if I were to receive such a letter, I don't hold out hope that it'll happen but it's not quite been a year for me yet so perhaps it's not too soon to give up entirely. Sorry if you've answered this before but how long ago did you reconcile with your son? I also wonder, do you feel as though the changes you've needed to make to regain and keep his trust are reasonable and sustainable, or do you just feel like the refrain I've seen often on this forum - walking on eggshells?

Not necessarily.

I know this is meant to a positive thread, but that doesn't give those who have estranged carte blanched to make sly digs at people.

There's nowt positive in that.

walking on eggshells" really just means treating their adult children with common decency and respect, and most importantly, like an actual adult

It might mean that but it definitely does not always mean that. There are a range of versions in different contexts.

Miseryen

It's kind of sad, but "walking on eggshells" really just means treating their adult children with common decency and respect, and most importantly, like an actual adult. Many people on this site complaining about "walking on eggshells" really just want to treat their adult children as little kids and have their personality disorders on full display with no repercussions.

If my estranged mother did post here and had a chance with me, her "walking on eggshells" would just require her to not hit me, and to not call me stupid and worthless (especially for no damn good reason either). My (theoretical) reasonable boundaries of respect and no physical harm would be considered "eggshells" as she would have to fundamentally change who she is as a person (that is to say, she is a shit person that the world would be better without).

What you are describing isn’t walking on eggshells and it doesn’t just apply to ACs but vice versa with parents or with a spouse etc.
What you are describing is someone having to change fundamentally in order to stop being abusive. Walking on eggshells refers to someone - and as I said it doesn’t just apply to parents/ACs - being anxious about saying or doing something that could cause a loved one to become angry/upset, it certainly isn’t about not treating an AC as an adult.

ShropshireGal87

Has anyone partly reconciled and agreed to low level contact with a family member? Is it better than nothing if the problems can't be fully resolved?

Many years ago we partly reconciled with our daughter whilst her sisters had already estranged from her. It was extremely damaging inasmuch as she became increasingly hostile and we became increasingly cowed and reduced, basically trying to do anything and everything she wanted, and failing miserably. When our other daughters pointed out abusive posts about us on social media we could no longer carry on, we confronted her about this and she cut us off immediately. 11 years and one breakdown later we realise that a reconciliation will probably never happen and have made our peace with that.

ShropshireGal87

Has anyone partly reconciled and agreed to low level contact with a family member? Is it better than nothing if the problems can't be fully resolved?

I think it's difficult if problems can't be resolved

I went NC with my mother in 2015
As I've mentioned before it was an incredibly difficult decision which I didn't take lightly.

I had no problem with my AC, my GC and the extended family continuing to have contact as long as they respected my decision.

In 2022 my daughter was due to be married and to keep the peace my husband and I took my mother to the wedding venue. (No one else was prepared to and she refused to pay for a taxi).

Her behaviour wasn't great, I kept quiet and mixed with all the other guests.

Within months all but one of the family have withdrawn from her.

I think the family saw exactly how awful she is at the time of the wedding. From what I understand extended family were shocked at posts on Facebook

So, as I say, if family members whether it be EPs, AC whoever cannot see what they have done wrong, be prepared to keep their opinions to themselves and let their children live their own lives then I can't see how there can be any sort of reconciliation

Sad

Meseren

Great to have a positive thread for the new year, stillawipp, and am glad you've chosen to stick around with a slight rebrand! I always appreciate reading your careful thoughts I'm glad you were able to reconcile with your son, I'm sure he is glad to have you too! Especially after four years. I'd be willing to reconcile in a heartbeat if I were to receive such a letter, I don't hold out hope that it'll happen but it's not quite been a year for me yet so perhaps it's not too soon to give up entirely. Sorry if you've answered this before but how long ago did you reconcile with your son? I also wonder, do you feel as though the changes you've needed to make to regain and keep his trust are reasonable and sustainable, or do you just feel like the refrain I've seen often on this forum - walking on eggshells?

Oh, there are some incredibly sad stories & of course not every situation is retrievable, & my heart goes out to those people.
Meseren thank you so much for your kind words - I would be so glad if I made just a slight difference to just one person....
In answer to your question, personally I wouldn't have ever given up - each situation will be very different I guess, and my husband always said that we were 'in it for the long game', and he was right. We reconciled with my son about 9 months ago now - it had been thawing a bit in the previous 6 months, during which time I had written my letter, and then they had another baby in the spring, and we sent cards & words of congratulations. Then they suddenly rang up & asked for help with the new baby, & we were only too thrilled to say yes! We have seen them every week or couple of weeks ever since then (they live over 2 hours away from us), and we are fully immersed in their lives now, and are just so incredibly grateful for that. Yes, all the changes in myself are reasonable & sustainable, & ones that will benefit me - I recognised that I was very jealous & needy after losing my mother young, & also was very sensitive to any guidance or criticism having had a very 'strong' father, & all of that had had a significant impact on our relationship. It's all stuff that affected other areas of my life too, so I am determined to keep working on it even now. My GN name is a reference to one of my closest friend's mother who, on her deathbed, told her daughter that we should never stop being open to changing/bettering ourselves as we got older, and we should all be a 'work-in'progress' until the day we die.

Oh sorry, I forgot the walking on eggshells bit - yes, there is a bit of that still, but actually what I am realising is that they maybe weren't eggshells at all, just reasonable things that I should maybe have respected anyway.

I don't think 'walking on eggshells means that at all' Madgran. For me it's how Babs has described it; being anxious about doing or saying something that could cause a loved one to become angry/upset and I would add because there's a fear/concern of an over reaction.

It looks from your second post Babs that that was what you were doing when you partly reconciled with your D and when you were no longer willing/able too continue, you were estranged.

I've always wondered how reconciliation can be successful if the problems that led to it aren't resolved ziggy, especially if the reasons for it are never discussed. How would the one who was estranged know what to avoid in the future if they don't know what they did wrong in the past?

I think that some do rather confuse walking on eggshells with reasonable boundaries they don't want to follow. Some families may have different politics and one party might consider that it is walking on eggshells to not discuss their politics. I would not agree with that for if a discussion about politics always led to a row then one party saying they did not want to discuss it is a good and reasonable boundary. Walking on eggshells does not apply to different views and not discussing them when things in common may be focused on instead.

I don't think that Babs or I have confused walking on eggshells with reasonable boundaries. Having different points of view and/or an agreement not to discuss certain topics which have proved in the past to be contentious, isn't the same as being in a more or less constant state of anxiety and stress, for fear of doing or saying the 'wrong' thing. That's walking on eggshells.

Are there some examples of what doing or saying the wrong thing might be to help understanding?

Five years the other side of estrangement I still walk on eggshells - and not just around the family I was estranged from. If you have been cut off abruptly with no indication that it could happen it makes you feel that every relationship you have is at risk. To be honest I have become a bit of a doormat because if someone does or says anything hurtful or thoughtless to me now I don't respond, as I am frightened of rocking the boat

But is it a boat you need to be on.
Being a people pleaser is not a shortcut or payment for an easy life.
Sometimes it's an abnegation of moral responsibility.
I think I used to do that. Without realising. As if I was owed an easy life because I always gave way or put myself out for others.
Not explaining it well.

Not being able to simply be yourself Luninance if your AC's wife/husband/partner is the problem. The four of us were, and the three of us (me, Mr. S. and DS) remain very demonstrative.

Feeling uncomfortable when you do what you've always done; hugs, telling one another you love them and talking on the 'phone every day, which I used to do with ES because he would 'phone me.

That's very true eddie, you do feel as if every relationship you have is at risk and for us that was the real worry with our DS.

The first time we visited DS in Aus. while he was still married, I was worried about being too demonstrative with my own son in case his wife didn't like it!!!

Smileless2012

I don't think 'walking on eggshells means that at all' Madgran. For me it's how Babs has described it; being anxious about doing or saying something that could cause a loved one to become angry/upset and I would add because there's a fear/concern of an over reaction.

It looks from your second post Babs that that was what you were doing when you partly reconciled with your D and when you were no longer willing/able too continue, you were estranged.

I've always wondered how reconciliation can be successful if the problems that led to it aren't resolved ziggy, especially if the reasons for it are never discussed. How would the one who was estranged know what to avoid in the future if they don't know what they did wrong in the past?

Yes I see your point
I think since the reconciliation 3 years ago my daughter is maybe more honest and forthright if she's not happy about something either myself or others have said or done. She will calmly say if she's unhappy about anything now