Daughter won't communicate with me at all

Surely, for any apology to be worth it’s name, it requires an admission of guilt, taking responsibility for any mistake, and a genuine apology, with the tacit implication that you won’t repeat whatever it was.🤷‍♀️

An “apology” if you don’t feel you’ve done anything wrong, therefore don’t take responsibility, and there’s an inability to promise not to do whatever it was, if you don’t know what you’re supposed to have done in the first place, it’s meaningless.

It’s nonsense to issue a non-guilt apology - everything would be really improved if both parties have a fully honest discussion over what’s gone wrong in the first place.🙄

Yes, Violet Sky, you can say "sorry " for all these, but sometimes 'sorry' is taken to mean you have behaved badly and are to blame .

It's important to be clear when "sorry" is not to be taken as an apology.

It can become an never ending cycle of blame and apologies Babs becoming emotionally exhausting.

You can apologise for your part in a misunderstanding Caleo which doesn't mean you alone were responsible for it.

Sorry as an admission of responsibility?

Hmm

I don't think that is how that works really

You can be sorry someone is hurting or sorry for your own specific actions/reactions

Relationships are not a court of law anyway, you aren't going to be imprisoned for being sorry

There is a difference between saying you are sorry about a misunderstanding , and apologising. The difference is that an apology recognises that one is responsible for it.

How may you phrase the former so that it's not taken to be an apology?

Sorry

Only ourselves

Sometimes protecting your own mental health is all you can do

We can't fix others, I my ourselves

We apologised for everything bar the weather with our daughter but each time she just went on to accuse us of something else, it was never enough, and she certainly would never apologise for the pain she caused to ourselves and her sisters. And if she accepted our apology or apologised herself it would mean she could no longer play the victim, so of course was like trying to square a circle and in the end it caused such mental anguish that we had to pull back.

Yes

VioletSky

It drops people's defences, they can see that you care about the relationship

I do think it can do this.

It can also be a power play - apologies which are demanded but are for things that haven't happened or been said - to test how far you will go before accepting their control. A mind game.

However, I do think it can be a powerful gesture which may just break through and help things to change for the better

There comes a time when your own needs trumps those of others and you don't need to justify those to anyone quite true Ruby.

I've met a few people in life who won't apologise for anything and they have all been unsafe

It drops people's defences, they can see that you care about the relationship

VioletSky

RubyLegend I'm not suggesting apologising to an abusive person

But I did in fact apologise to my mother (and abusive person) for my part in arguments etc

It's just the right thing to do and helped me heal

I can understand your reasons for apologising and it gave you a path towards healing.

Apologising can also expose a pattern of behaviour which helps give you permission for withdrawing from a relationship.

The 'right thing to do' per se is highly subjective but the 'right thing to do' for YOU is essential. There comes a time when your own needs trump those of others and you font need to justify those to anyone.

RubyLegend I'm not suggesting apologising to an abusive person

But I did in fact apologise to my mother (and abusive person) for my part in arguments etc

It's just the right thing to do and helped me heal

Apologising in this way can be a gateway to further abuse, it's not necessarily a gateway to resolution good point Ruby and the reason I would never apologise for something I haven't said or done.

@Harris. Yes, sometimes this is the only option we have. Working through this kind of pain seems to just be another part of parenting that was never in the books.

VioletSky

I have never understood why it's so difficult to say sorry for some people

"I can see that you are hurting and I am so sorry for my part in that, I really want to have a good relationship, please can we discuss how to make that happen"

And what do people who have said sorry in this way do when that apology is accepted on the surface then a whole other list of grievances appear.

Apologising in this way can be a gateway to further abuse, it's not necessarily a gateway to a resolution.

Sometimes we have to work through the pain and accept what we have left yes we do Harris .

If I didn’t go and visit my middle son he wouldn’t bother with us. We haven’t fallen out but he just goes his own sweet way. My other two sons don’t have much contact with him either no explanation offered. Sometimes we have to work through the pain and accept what we have left. So sad and sorry for your situation.

I have never understood why it's so difficult to say sorry for some people

"I can see that you are hurting and I am so sorry for my part in that, I really want to have a good relationship, please can we discuss how to make that happen"

Yes you're right Ruby if only in every case it was as simple as saying you're sorry but that's never going to be enough if the other person/people aren't prepared to accept it.

Saying sorry transforms into a subjective activity in these circumstances.

For example, a simple and heartfelt apology for the issue/issues at hand becomes the wrong kind of sorry/not sorry enough/a disingenuous sorry/not a specific enough sorry.

Yes, apologies may help on a road to reconcilliation but when trust has broken down and the goal posts change more often than the weather, it a losing game.

It helps if you know what you've done wrong.

Someone has to say sorry first

And mean it

These relationships are worth it