SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

I used to do that too Purplepixie and mince pies and a Christmas pudding. ES loved my mine pies, the only ones he'd eat so don't know what he does now.

Definitely money well spent DSL. Our lodge and our home are on the coast, we can see the sea from our roof terrace so it was good that our girls checked all was OK.

That doesn't surprise me Hilltop some just can't accept that not all parents who've been estranged did nothing to deserve it. It's as if doing so would put a ? over their own situation but we know there are bad parents out there, just as there are bad AC.

Granniesunite. If you need some help with that imaginary bin, you know where to come.

I only make mincemeat pie a large when my brother and sister in law visit . I always use the pastry my husband loved. A sweet very crumbly one . It not a case of rolling out as much as piecing bits together. My mom always made an extra Christmas cake for my husband as he was the only who liked it. Talk of mince pies and Christmas cake brings back happy memories. My parents always made a big thing of Christmas and my husband caught the bug. His parents Christmas was very low key. Some years not even a tree.

Before we married my Christmas breakfast was rough puff sausage rolls and mince pies, dad made the mincemeat as well as the pastries. He made the Christmas pudding as well.

Once we married it was crossiants and we always had Christmas day at home. Alternate years at parents boxing day and day after. We always had my parents on New year's Day. His parents never wanted to come.

Growing up we didn't have much money but mom and dad knew how to make a little go a long way. And we were rich in love and attention . Which is all a child needs.

?

Thank you for your concern Allsorts I will ask for help and support when I need too.

Hopefully the topic can move on now.

"we were rich in love and attention. Which is all a child needs"
that's lovely Whiff.

It really is whiff Children should never be taught to hate and keeping them away from those that love them and who will do them no harm is emotional abuse.

It’ll come back one day to haunt these damaged individuals.

I do smileless .one day I will let rip!

I agree, it's emotional abuse Granniesunite for our GC and for us too.

Violet, you have made the right decision. I hope you won’t be offended but I wondered if you have ever contacted a helpline called. “Confidential Emotional Support Line”, their phone number is on the site as this forum is not the right medium for you but it that one might me. Good luck.
Smileless, I do agree it’s emotional abuse, it’s hard to accept that those you gave life to and have loved and nurtured can do that to us. What happens in their heads that makes their actions acceptable is a mystery. We have to protect ourselves, to those own self be true. They estranged us, we didn’t estrange them, keep our dignity because we can say we did our best, they can’t.

Allsorts

I really enjoy gransnet and the estrangement threads. It's up to you who you support but I am fine, thank you for your concern.

VS You were not going to post on this thread, yet here you are.
In future I will nor respond to anything you say, hopefully if others do the same the thread will go back on track.

But you keep talking to me? It would be rude not to answer you?

Yes I think that is best

"What happens in their heads that makes their actions acceptable is a mystery" I do believe in some cases it's coercive control from a partner Allsorts.

Coercive control is abuse and abusers seek to isolate their victims, they want to keep them away from those who may enable them to see what's really going on.

Parents are the enemy, they are the ones most likely to see that there's something wrong and alert their AC so they're the ones who need to go. Then, for the abuser's position to be even more secure, extended family get pushed away too.

Keeping children away from their GP's is done for the same reason, especially if the children are close to their GP's. Even when there's never been a relationship because estrangement happens before that can take place, it ensures that no outside influence can call into question the image that the abuser desperately needs to keep in place.

The games they play are devious and manipulative which is why as is so often said here, the only way to win is to stop playing.

Don't respond, don't give them the attention they crave no matter how much they try to goad you into responding.

Your holiday home sounds lovely Smileless . Nothing like being by the sea!

Love your happy memories, Whiff and you're right, love and attention are the best things. Those Christmas eats sound delicious too!

Smileless I completely agree with you about coercive control. They use their children as weapons to deliberately hurt their parents rather than actually talk and try to work out what's wrong. (At least, that's what my ES has done... )

A friend of mine gave advice to send a gift for our GC but to completely ignore our ES and DiL this Christmas, so I think we are going to do that. I've never not given him something at Christmas before, ever. It feels sad, but there is no point rewarding the pain he has put me through this year.

I read something online that suggested side stepping Christmas and then sending a letter along the lines of saying you'd not be sending any birthday gifts in the coming year. I'm not sure I'd want to do that, but what do you ladies think? Did any of you do that? I sent him a birthday gift and was ignored. This year has been so weird.

Derbyshirelass I'm so pleased to hear of your impending visit and hope all went well.

We've never sent our ES a birthday or Christmas card Onward, up until this year we were sending them to our GC but decided to stop. It was another bench mark for us, me in particular, no longer having that need.

I wouldn't send a letter saying you wont be sending anything for his birthday next year. TBH I think that's a bad idea. It would be viewed as some sort of emotional blackmail or even harassment!!

We don't owe them any explanations or fore warning; they haven't given them to us have they. Stick to the GC Onward is my advice.

That's interesting to know, Smileless. I did send him a birthday gift this year because he had only not been talking to me for a few weeks when his birthday occurred and I thought it might pass. ES has never said he doesn't want to hear from us again, he has just gone silent (the coward!)

That's so true. No explanations. I actually think they might be making it up as they go along!

Thanks Smileless I will stick to the GC and ignore the adults. I hope it doesn't backfire by making him more jealous- but I don't think I can reward his abusive behaviour with a gift now that it's been several months of no contact. He ignored mine and DH's birthday's too.

Thanks for all your good wishes for tomorrow. Although, Tbh I am feeling quite ambivalent about it all. Apparently my DIL is coming too. I don't know how to feel. On the one hand I am happy to let things go but on the other I am concerned that they are blithely acting as if nothing has happened. Have they learned anything I wonder.

It's very unsettling and, to use a popular expression, it does feel like a very large elephant is still in the room. Is it even possible to move forward without first clearing the air. Or will her resentment of me just fester away under the surface, waiting for her next explosion.

Smiles......on the day that everything blew up I noticed that twice she seemed to take exception to the fact that the children were happy and enjoying themselves with me.

The eldest and I were playing on the floor when suddenly, for no reason, he grabbed my arm, kissed it and then leaned in for a cuddle. It was such a sweet moment. I looked up and saw her face. The look of pure hatred she directed at me really shook me. My grandson seemed to sense her mood because he quickly withdrew.

Then a little while later the baby was crying. He had just had a bath and wanted to have his last feed and go to sleep but she was faffing around and making him wait until she was ready, despite him getting more and more distressed. My son couldn't pick the baby up because he was recovering from surgery so I picked him up to comfort him and he fell asleep in my arms. As soon as DIL noticed she grabbed him off me "saying I have to feed him". Her face was contorted with rage. You can imagine how I felt. My son just sat there, looking dejected and miserable.

How can a mother be so jealous and vindictive, angry because one of her children wanted to kiss and cuddle his grandmother and the other was sleeping peacefully in his grandmothers arms.

What kind of person would feel such rage and jealousy. Of course since it happened and I have been studying narcissism I now know that it's classic narc behaviour. It's not real love, it's all about coercive control and power based on her own feelings of insecurity.

Well if that's how she is going to behave whilst they are children God help her when they are teenagers and old enough to assert themselves. She will reap a whirlwind.

I just hope to God my son does the right thing and stands up to her. It is his duty to protect the children even if he won't protect himself.

There is a small comfort in that so far my son is ensuring that they do keep in contact, even if it infrequent and intermittent. At least I can monitor what's going on. I just hope she doesn't try to break their spirit the way she is trying to break my son. However, I do worry that is exactly what she will try to do.

When my father died I breathed a sigh of relief.....I was finally free of his narcissism and so was my family. I never for one minute dreamt I would have to contend with a narc DIL and that it would start all over again.

Onward, my opinion is that you don't need to announce you are not sending gifts. Just send them or don't. Announcing it could come across as declaring a punishment for not doing things the way you want. Maybe seen as an attempt to manipulate. Just not sending them could be judged too, but I think it's the better way.

Just wrote a long post . Why can't it be saved . Lost the lot. I have tremors in my hands and hit a button no idea what and it went to page 1????? .Will try again later

Yes Smileless I remember my first post here, 9yrs ago, I said I am in a black hole of despair and that I wish I had found this forum sooner.

pixie that is so sad!

turning page.....

I remember that Yoga, you have come such a long way, you can honestly say you tried everything, she doesn’t deserve you and it’s good for those starting out on that awful journey to know it will get better and they will emerge again happy though a changed person.
Me, I let it drag on but I’m there now, with hindsight I wish it had been years earlier, my journey was slower, I couldn’t believe half of what she did, not my d, but the blinkers came off and I finally admitted to myself the truth. From then on it got better, I let go.
Onward, I used to send presents to all, how silly I was, but I found out my gd never got them, I guess it put parents in a bad light, best for them to think grandma does not care .

Whiff that happens to me, don’t worry, my words often alter after I’ve read through and pressed send?

Thank you Allsorts. Amazing that I remember those exact words! It took me years too Allsorts, 6.5yrs for me to finally let go. Just got my estGC Xmas gifts out the loft to give to a charity. Got them just as I was cut out, must have thought things would be sorted by Xmas day, but not! Pulled all the gift tags off, they will be popped in their memory sacks, how sad is that Still no crying symbol I see.

Granniesunite

It really is whiff Children should never be taught to hate and keeping them away from those that love them and who will do them no harm is emotional abuse.

It’ll come back one day to haunt these damaged individuals.

I do smileless .one day I will let rip!

I think perhaps it does depend on the circumstances. I estranged my ex MIL when my children were 4 and 2. I did it for good reason, and I’d do the same again.

But, they didn’t know “hate” - they were surrounded by family and friends that loved them, and, to be honest, far from hating her, my ex and I didn’t give MIL a second thought, unless the subject cropped up, which wasn’t that often. She was just out of our realm - no angst at all.

The children met her, as adults. They stayed an hour, came away and never went back.

They just phoned me, laughing and said they “got it why I’d done it”.

She died last year, they declined to attend her funeral, and declined whatever she’d apparently left them (don’t know what it was, a letter or memento, I guess ).

But, no hate from anyone.?

When you stand at Heaven's gate Diamondlilly if you get that far. You say your 'ex' why did you not say your m.i.l's son?
As for the GC never having had a relationship with their loving GM, no surprise there was no bond, you can't bond with a GM that's been made into a stranger. Your H probably never mentioned his mother in case he got a rolling pin down on his head!

Do what feels right for you Onward. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't so it's what's right for you that matters, not him.

I felt anxious for you when I read your post DSL; not something to look forward too is it, but you've come a long way in a matter of weeks. Learned so much so I know you'll be OK.

I know those looks. Got one myself the day after our GC was born and we saw him for the first time. I asked if I could hold him, ES said yes but my goodness, you could have cut the atmosphere with a knife. And so it began; 8 months later it was over.

Hope you're OK Whiff(((hug))) .

It's been a hard and difficult journey hasn't it Yogin. You did everything you could and it made no difference. We were the opposite but the result was the same. Gave him the space he needed and that was wrong too!!!

You did what you thought was right Allsorts, you were kept dangling and just the tiniest hope was enough to keep you hanging on.

Well, we've woken up to snow which wouldn't normally bother me but we're going home today and as we have my car and the motor home here, I'll have to drive. It's been so long that I'm not looking forward to it TBH.

It's stopped snowing and we don't have that far to go. Mr. S. will be behind me bless him, so I'm sure it will be fine.

for your poor m.i.l, your ex's mother, your children's grandmother, God rest her soul. Karma