SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

PetitFromage I hope things move forward positively for you all. I admit to feeling very wary for you as LB does appear to be controlling a lot of aspects of the relationship with DD1 and it does not sound healthy to me. But you being there for her is all that you can do and I truly hope that it works out for the best

Petit Fromage and Whiff you made me smile with some of your comments,
PetitFromage saying LB will dance on your grave so you are proposing to be buried at sea is funny ,
Also Whiff saying if she had been buried you would have dug her up and put her up at the tip is funny.
It is ironic just how far people will go to get their hands on money.

Whiff at least your children remained half heirs which gave some compensation but that damn rotten widow who got her claws into my uncle along with her two sons was greedy and wanted the full lot. They must have got him drunk and took him into the solicitors to get a new Will.
Anyway if that money was not coming to me then that's life
but if I had known anything about it beforehand I would have made sure that she met with an accident before he popped off. If that had happened the original Will would have been legal and my late uncles lovely house and money would have come to me and my cousin to share out between us rather than that old dragon and her family.
What hurt the most was her son telling me and my brother
please do not come to the house on the day of the funeral and they would email the address of the church for the cremation in the case of us attending. I am never evil but I
hope what they stole from our family never brought them a days happiness.

Whiff have a good few days with your brother and SIL visiting and enjoy the time you get with them.

Reading through these posts has made me smile and given me hope. I am not alone and neither am I to blame. I'm so very sorry and sad for all that you are having to go through. I haven't seen or spoken to my daughter in 6.5 years. She lives 2 miles away. I pass her house on the way to the shops. She has 2 beautiful kids, my grand daughters who I didn't see for 2 years. Her ex husband stepped in and helped me to see them. The lock down came along and I've seen them twice in over one year. I don't know what I've done. It's all so cruel. She won't respond to my phone calls, no answer. Same with letters, emails and texts. I've stepped back and given up. I'm drained.

Purplepixie How good ghat tour ex SIL stepped in. So sorry that you haven't seen them much with civid, hopefully will improve soon.

Whiff, I am afraid I cannot understand your reasoning.. your children were tiny children, your mother in law died aged 91. They were well and truly grown up. They have their own lives and I cannot understand why someone cannot leave their own money to whom they choose. I will not leave anything to c or gc that I have no relationship with.It sounds as if none on you had any type of loving relationship, you say they grew up knowing exactly how bad their grand mother was, so it was doubtful they cared about her, therefore you would expect any money. Perhaps she got on with her brother and he kept her company. I would rather leave my money to a good cause.

Sorry, should have said they should not expect any money if you have no relationship.

Sparkling my children did have a relationship with their grandmother. They like us always included her in our lives visited and cared for her even though she was a horrible woman. We never gave up on her. Even after my husband died. Her brother only appeared when he wanted money off her. He didn't spends days sitting by her bedside while she was dieing I did. He and his wife appeared after she died.

She was the first to be invited to both weddings and even before they said don't worry we will get you to the weddings ,as soon as she knew they were getting married where they lived she said she wouldn't go. They sent her beautiful photos of the wedding as she requested in lovely frames . Never knew what she done with them as they weren't in her house when I helped sort out all her things.

She told people she didn't have a son or grandchildren . But we never gave up on her . I protected her even though I hated her because she was my late husband's mom and he loved her and she was my children's nan.

Looking back on other pages. Sparkling have you got a problem with me? Others can say same things as me but I am the one you jump on.
You don't know me nor I you . Would love to know why ?

Smileless wrote: "
You're absolutely right Sparkling, estrangement remains a taboo subject and I often wonder if those who are not estranged, would rather not hear about it because if it can happen to us, it could happen to themhmm."

In my own experience, people tend to come up with reasons why it won't happen to them in their minds. Not just about estrangement but any adverse situation with children that was not purely accidental. It makes them feel more secure. Unfortunate for those who find out later it can happen to them too.

PF like Madgran I worry about you too. Your s.i.l.'s influence over your D does appear to be very much in evidence. That said, perhaps not as strong as it once was which is enabling her to keep in touch with you.

I cannot put into words how much I hope that things will continue to move forward for you all.

What a very fortunate woman your m.i.l. was Whiff. Her son married a woman whose love for him was so strong, that despite the way she behaved, you kept your word to him and continued to be there for his mother, going above and beyond until her death.

"In my own experience, people tend to come up with reasons why it wont happen to them in their minds". Absolutely CafeAuLait, and for us too. No one here I'm certain would ever have envisaged losing a much loved and treasured AC due to estrangement.

"It makes them feel more secure" which explains the often heard/read comments like 'there's no smoke without fire'; 'you must have done/said something' and of course 'no AC estranges good, kind, loving and non abusive parents'. If only that were true.

Just popping in to say hello.
So much sense in your last post smiles as always. There's no smoke without fire is used by so many people in so many situations to reassure themselves that they are safe from what happened to another. Rarely true, but it can be devastating to the one it is used against.

Still trying to recover from my first jab - doctor says hang on a bit longer and maybe blood tests before next dose. Was really struggling with sinusitis but new spray really helping. Hot water system conked out, plumber came but says we need an electrician, so that's Monday. So just a quick wave for now, catch up with you all eventually.

Take care of yous, all. x

That first jab has really knocked you off your feet hasn't it hugshelp!! I hope you'll soon be feeling much better and that when you get your second, all goes well,

hugs - lovely to hear from you and I hope that everything goes ok with the vaccine. Sending hugs as they help ?

Smileless - thank you, as ever, for your wisdom and kindness. As you and others have said, estrangement can happen to anyone, especially if there is a third party involved, even though you never believed that it could happen to you.

I always believed, at least a bit, that the parents must have been to blame in some way. Now I don’t think that at all. I believe that all relationships, however solid they feel, are potentially fragile and vulnerable, and that nobody should be complacent.

On a more positive note, I had a 40 minute conversation with DD1 today, which was normal and loving. In the long run, I think that ‘clearing the air’ was the right thing to do, although it came with great risk. Ultimately, I need to have an authentic relationship.

Wishing you all a lovely and relaxing Sunday.

nanny and Madgran - thank you also for your great kindness and sending love your way X

"Ultimately, I need to have an authentic relationship" of course you do PF and hopefully DD1 recognises this and also sees that her relationship with you needs to be authentic too.

Yes, you took a risk but you did that by entering back into this relationship to begin with. As I've said to you so many times dear friend, I have nothing but admiration for your courage.

Thank you PF lovely to see you too. I am so glad you had a good chat with DD1. Maybe it's one of those things that might have some ups and downs along the way, but hopefully, you'll get there in the end. As you say it has to be authentic.

Whiff, I am sorry if you didn’t agree with my comments, it is certainly not personal. I just think that anyone is allowed to leave their estate to whom they choose, unless if course they are coerced. I cannot imagine having my children visit their Nan if she denied them and her son and was evil. I feel for you being estranged from your son, I understand the pain of it and often feel I can’t go on but of course have to. It is all the harder when you didn’t see it coming. I have to keep telling myself that it is her life, she is definitely happier without me but it’s hard to think someone I love so much disliking me and she would know how much I am hurting.

Sparkling thank you. Both my in laws where awful from the first moment we met. But then again they were awful to their own son. But he loved them all the same never liked them .

After his dad died his mother spend 3 days a week with us for 6 years . She was all our son but was vile to our daughter . She took against her as a baby because everytime she held her she cried. My father in law was besotted by her and loved his granddaughter , unfortunately he died when our son was 8 months old.

My husband became her sole beneficiary. When he was terminal his mother promised him our children would be joint beneficiaries of her estate. And they where up until shorty before she died . Her brother was a piece of work always after money.

My husband made me promise a lot of things as he knew it's what I needed to carry on without him and it has always been very important to me to keep those promises. The promises his mother made to him she broke everyone of them. In my book if you make promises to a dieing man you keep them.

My mother in law was in my life longer than my husband. But our children and myself never gave up on her.

Unfortunately the biggest lie my son has told me is I love you mom. In my book if you love someone you don't just throw them away. He was always able to talk to us both . Why couldn't he have told me on my birthday that I would never see him again. As he needed to for the sake of his marriage and family. I would have been upset but would have understood . His family comes first and that is how it should be.

Your pain you feel over your daughter I understand. It's the not knowing how they are. Just because our children don't want us doesn't stop us from worrying about them. With Covid that worry has increased. I don't know how old your daughter is ,but my son and daughter in law should have had their first dose of vaccine now as the age group has come down.

Our children hopefully will regret what they have done. But if they do decide they want a relationship with us again. It will never be the same. How can we trust they won't do the same thing again. I know I can never forgive or trust my son again. And the close relationship we had he has killed. I would always be on my guard waiting for it to happen again.

For those who have got their children back I am happy for you. I hope it's forever.

Hugs sorry you are still suffering. Hopefully the blood tests will show what is wrong. Hope you get your heating system gets sorted out. I am with Homeserve for heating and plumbing. We took it out with them when they started it. It has saved a lot of money over the years also it's peace of mind.

Smiles as always wise words. Your ears must have been burning last week I was singing your praises. My brother,sister in law and their dog came Wednesday until Friday. Hadn't seen them since February last year. Had a wonderful time. They couldn't get over the bungalow. I have had a lot of work done. Only 2 bedroom windows to be replaced and it's all finished.

My brother took a photo of me and my sister in law. It's lovely but he did say it looks like Gandalf and a hobbit. She is 6' me 5' 2". Had a lovely one of the 2 of us. Both will go in frames.

Hope everyone has a good week and the sun shines for you.

PF You are welcome ..and also right to take the risk. As you say, you need to have an authentic relationship. I have been quietly taking risks recently, expressing things that others don't want to hear and hoping beyond hope that such risk doesn't come back and bite me. So far so good, but it is scary and hard isn't it! And much harder for you with all that you have been through

"it looks like Gandalf and a hobbit"that made me laugh Whiff; you may be only 5'2" but clearly have a big heart and lots of love to give.

I've lost count of the number of times I've wished that our ES had spoken those words too. It would of course have been heartbreaking to hear him say he could no longer have anything to do with us for the sake of his marriage and family, but better than the cruel and vile rhetoric and the never ending feeling that he must hate us, and wondering if he ever really loved us at all.

Taking risks and saying what others don't want to hear is as you say, scary and hard Madgran but also necessary for our own well being. I'm glad that it's "so far so good" and hope it continues to be so.

I was estranged from my son for around 5 years.
Before it happened he had an accident which my mh will never recover from and i am not the same person.
Then a year later he met someone one night and literally days later she was planning moving in when he bought somewhere. Anyway her and her family took total control of him. There has been physical, mental and financial abuse. He stopped contact with me and his sisters.

I thought i would never have anything to do with him when one day i was listening to Liam Gallagher's For What It's Worth!
I texted him he responded he rang he was petrified . After a bit he told her i was in touch. we all had the odd get together she couldn't stand it every time.
After 7 months they split up. He had the strength to see what had happened even his friends said you need to speak to your mum to get out of this.

It was hell. And i always felt ashamed as though i had done something wrong she used to text me in the night off his phone saying i was only interested in him for his money etc. What sort of family are you.
I can't even think about the depths she sent me to i will never be the same person. I never thought we would speak again. I even now have to associate with her for pickups as they have a dd.

Never underestimate the lengths someone will go to to isolate their partner and people go along with it for the easy way.

I sound like i am blaming her. You think am i mil from hell? But sometimes these things just happen.

I am not religious but when ds was in hospital he was going to be switched off life support. The doctors said they could do no more it was up to son to fight.I prayed but nothing happened and i pleaded in my head anybody please help me.
I believe that night i made a deal with the devil and he helped my son come through.
And our penance was this girl/woman in our lives destroying everything we held close. Sorry if i sound like a fantasist.

And even writing this i can hear some people saying - but you must have done something.

She didn't want to hear us say we loved him she couldn't stand it. I am not a fussy mum kissing and demanding. People would say you were such a close family. But i felt a complete failure as a mum.

My thoughts to anybody on this cruel path of strange mourning.

I would never blame you Whatdayisit you did nothing wrong. Your crime like me and others here are loving parents who didn't do anything wrong. Unfortunately our children choose to spend their lives with partners who for some reason or other hate and are jealous of the relationship we have with our children.

Don't feel ashamed funny enough that is one emotion I haven't felt. As I know I have nothing to be ashamed of. I took my daughter in law into my heart after getting to know her. I now realise I didn't know her at all. But I was grateful and happy my son found her a year after his dad's death. I got my happy boy back.

I am sorry you had to suffer those texts and how cruel of her to make you think they where from your son.

From what my daughter in law wrote on Reddit she hated me showing any affection towards her , my son and grandson's.

But I was brought up in a family that showed affection towards eachother and was told daily I was loved. My husband didn't have that until we started courting. Our children where told daily they were loved and hugged and kissed . I carried that on with their partners and my grandson's .

I know I am a good mom, mother in law and grandmother. Also a good person.

I am glad you got your son back. I hope he never hurts you again. ?

Thankyou Whiff for your kind and very wise words.

For so many on this thread we know what happened it is that suspicion and disbelief of others.

It is so easy to be painted as inlaws from hell.

It is so easy to have no idea what these people are capable of thinking, seeing or doing. It is beyond our capabilities.

Whatdayisit ; your line "We know what happened it is that suspicion and disbelief of others." is something that can resonate with me. Certain friends that know me are well aware how much my ED changed and these days I do not bring her up too much and keep off the subject. I will not tell newer people I meet about my ED and GC I keep it private as the painful scars I emotionally have to bear are easier to deal with when kept below the surface.

I went to get a few things in the large supermarket on the weekend and because of the hot weather a big selection of children's summer dresses were on view. I could not help myself and went and looked through them and pictured
my two GDs in two really nice ones that caught my eye.
I thought how lovely it would be to buy them and see them wearing them happy and smiling, and then had to bring myself back to reality and decided there was no point in buying them.

I am so glad you got your son back hope everything goes well for you both.

Thankyou 3nanny6.

There are so many waves of emotion as time trundles along and so many reminders of what is being missed. My husband is estranged from his son they just moved away and we had had lots to do with their little girl. We sent presents the first xmas but had no idea whether they got them and even now 3 years later i look at things i would have bought her and, though i can buy for others, it still hurts that she is 'missing'.

Even some friends can be unkind; i had one who said to me i must be like a mother earth figure cos all your kids come to see me.

I found keeping my feelings under the radar and keeping myself out of the way as much as possible the best way to cope.

I may be generalising but putting it forward as debate -
Are Son's more likely to estrange to keep their partner quiet - it is easier to ignore you than stand up to them.
Do daughters do it more to spite?

I know there is that estrangement after rows and addiction etc where you are left wondering if you could have done more or said less.