Religion and Estrangement/No Contact.

Yes of course you don't need faith to "lead a good and decent life" Luckygirl and there are of course some whose behaviour doesn't correspond with what they claim to believe and/or the religion they follow.

It's all too often the lack of respect or acceptance of 'other' that results in the awful conflicts we've seen, and continue to see in the name of religion.

Indeed Smileless2012 - I respect your faith but cannot share it.

I was trying to illustrate that you can lead a good and decent life without faith; and that way you avoid getting tangled up in the ills that religions have caused, which sadly are many.

I'm not saying you have to be a Christian or follow any faith to be able to forgive Luckygirl, I was merely posting from a Christian perspective.

Forgiveness isn't always easy especially when the pain runs deep.

When meditating one comes to understand that humans have a habit of thinking about the future or the past and not the here and now-

meditating

The point is the notion of reality as expressed by Holyhannah:

"When I use the term "bound to this one universe" I mean it on a cosmic scale... The Universe and everything in it is tied/bound to every other 'thing' as well... The Universe is infinitely large and expanding...

Similar to the "Butterfly Effect" only on a grander and multi-dimensional existence."

is a reasonable reason to forgive. Whether you can do so emotionally is another matter. However I think mediating on HH's words is a help.

I can do forgiveness too! - but I do it because it is the right thing to do, not because a superpower wants me to.

This!

Smileless2012 - I can do forgiveness too! - but I do it because it is the right thing to do, not because a superpower wants me to.

starbird - but if you went to send a message and the computer had been destroyed in a fire, you would not be able to do it at all!

The act of forgiveness is as much for yourself as it is the person you are forgiving. You don't just forgive in the hope that the person you're forgiving will change, you forgive as a Christian because that's what God wants to you to do, to forgive others as you are forgiven by Him.

Sometimes we struggle to forgive and God understands.

Forgiveness is like a muscle, the more you exercise it, the easier it is to do.

That's not always a good thing.

Some people you have to stop forgiving because your forgiveness means they never do any hard work on themselves at all.

Holy Hannah wrote:"When I use the term "bound to this one universe" I mean it on a cosmic scale... The Universe and everything in it is tied/bound to every other 'thing' as well... The Universe is infinitely large and expanding...

Similar to the "Butterfly Effect" only on a grander and multi-dimensional existence."

If this is true, and I believe it is, it must be possible to forgive everyone including oneself, and also possible to not blame anyone for anything.

Personal responsibility remains, however, because as human beings we can predict how our actions will affect ourselves and others and we often have a choice of what action to take.

Sparkling Presumably because it started off as about the possible links between religion and estrangement but that aspect disappeared in the discussion pretty early on.

Why is this not under religion. All those quotes from the bible! People's beliefs are their own they don't need preaching to.

Evie64 -- Total mistype -- I meant to say Spiritual Jedi... I had Christianity on the brain. LOL

starbird -- As an "unbeliever" I think perhaps you meant to say non-Christian... It's rather condescending to imply that I do not have "beliefs" or that my beliefs/faith are less legitimate.

I'm not sure how being Jedi or any of the "unbeliever" choices and the concept of an afterlife connect or not. Just because I am not Christian I should be relieved by death?

My belief is that energy cannot be created nor destroyed... So I do believe in the concept that there is possibly something "more"...

And if I am wrong? What is God going to do? Evict Me? I never much relished the idea of eternity in his company especially if my 'family' is there... Send Me to hell? Lucifer had 'Daddy issues' so maybe He and I would relate...

Or how about send me back to Earth for a 'do over'? Some people do believe in reincarnation... So after-life or not and whatever form it takes? I'm good.

Cheers Hannah. Whatever gets you through eh?

Evie64 -- I'd call you a Christian Jedi... Nothing wrong with your opinion in the least.

I believe in a God, what I don't believe in, and never have, is vicars, priests, imams, rabbis and all the extremely rich churches, temples, mosques, synagogues etc. They are all about money. My God is within me, and I can talk to him/her whenever I need to without having to go to a large ornate building and expect a religious "expert" to preach to me about what I should believe. That's my opinion anyway.

So mind/soul/consciousness remains after the flesh is flesh no more?

Luckygirl and the other unbelievers, I actually think it would be a lot easier to not believe in eternal life. It would be a relief to think that death is the end - no more effort or worries. . But believing in kindness is another form of ‘goodness’ a word derived from God like whether you believe in God or not, so you may be surprised when the time comes, to find that the thinking part of you is still alive after all!

Luckygirl. I am using my ipad to send this message, it is the means if communicating my thoughts to you. If I get a virus or some other technical problem with my i pad or the Internet goes down, my message may get jumbled up or you may not receive it at all, but that doesn’t change the fact that I sent a very clear message.

An imperfect analogy but hopefully you get my point. The mind may also be called the soul by some people.

Being a Christian is who you are and not just a part of your identity and no doubt it's that way for anyone whose faith, their religion is of the utmost importance to them.

Alexa -- On this we agree. I do not belong to "any religious institution". That's why Jedi are just that... It's who you are not just a "part" of your identity...

HolyHannah wrote:

"When I use the term "bound to this one universe" I mean it on a cosmic scale... The Universe and everything in it is tied/bound to every other 'thing' as well... The Universe is infinitely large and expanding...

Similar to the "Butterfly Effect" only on a grander and multi-dimensional existence."

I too believe that. I don't belong to any religious institution.