The 'Perception Filter'...

Music; it can evoke so many emotions and memories can't it. Some warm the heart and some just makes you cry.

One song I played over and over at the time of our estrangement was 'The Dance'.

"Our lives, are better left to chance, I could have missed the pain but I'd have had to miss the dance".

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSDF8VvU13M

This should be the song for every 'child' that feels like their parents became 'adults' and seem to think We their 'children' never do...

Starblaze -- "Sometimes it's best to mend the fences with one of you on the other side." That is especially true when the people that should have had the tools to raise Us, our 'parents', lied on their resume and said they are "good parents".

Good parents understand that fences have 2 sides... Bad parents, if they can even see/acknowledge the "broken fence", are the first to stand back and proclaim that any damage to that "fence" happened from 'the other side' -- that 'evil' out-side influence/DiL/'bad' doctor etc. But do you ever see an EP "pick up a tool" to try to mend the "fence"?

Nope. Most EP's spend their time denying "the fence"/dysfunctional 'family' THEY created as the adults was always a teetering mess. And why would they admit to that mess/the wonky fence when THEY were the builders of the "fence"?

It's rather like someone who builds a dam in a river... If a dam/family is properly built? Then the likelihood of failure is low. Dysfunctional/abusive/Narc 'parents' are the "dam builders" and it will eventually wash away when the 'parent' plays their game/applies too much pressure one too many times...

Once I knew what my 'mom' was, I set a mental boundary IN ADVANCE and said, "If she ever uses 'insert my story/reason' against Me? That will be the final straw that WILL lead to Me going fully No Contact." And guess what? When the "scenario" came to pass? She DID try to hurt Me and as much as it crushed Me? It was also very freeing.

I KNEW she would do what she 'did' and when she did? She proved ALL my years of being gas-lighted and abused correct/right in my mind. The 'final straw' that broke the camel's back was freeing. I predicted her abuse and she did not 'disappoint'...

I agree Starblaze

Sometimes it's best to mend the fences with one of you on the other side.

Moreover, the reality is that we all only get one mother and tomorrow isn't guaranteed. Best to mend fences while we still can.

Not necessarily for everyone LeeElizabeth Depends what the problems were that caused the problems

LeeElizabeth, we only get the children that we do, to cherish or to ruin- I was bequeathed the task of fence mending, generations of split pickets, broken tools and scorched earth to sift through for bent nails to fasten it all back together and maybe, just maybe, resurrect some semblance of a family that doesn't look like they stepped out of Pet Sematary-

Any parent swearing upon the cover of purity of your Nancy Drew novels and Boy's Life magazines that you "didn't do anything", I believe you- But isn't it about time that you do?

For those that had abusive parents, "the reality is that we all only get one mother" is good. I couldn't have survived two of her.

I was not the perfect parent for 29 years. However, no one is. Moreover, the reality is that we all only get one mother and tomorrow isn't guaranteed. Best to mend fences while we still can.

Motherofdragons no worries! Best to leave the phone off when going to bed I suppose ?

There is a significant amount of research on generational characteristics

but my point/query was purely in relation to his comment about "Baby Boomer" parents

Madgran my apologies, I clearly didn’t read your post properly. I have overlooked the part highlighted in bold and responded to you based on the first part of the statement:

I am wondering where his research sources are in terms of statistics for statements such as large percentage of you are narcissistic toxic scumbags" referring to "baby boomers" as a generation

I’m sorry for the confusion! The generational aspect completely escaped my attention. That will teach me to just go to sleep rather than staying up on my phone when I go to bed!

There are all sorts of situations where people might need to stay in contact with abusive people. Situations where abusive partners still have court awarded access to the children. Situations where abusive parents still have minor siblings iving with them. Situations where one parent refuses to leave an abusive parent etc. When it comes to emotional abuse especially, it's still not seen and recognised in all cases sadly.

*Woe is me = denial

Woah, it's me- = accountability*

Nice one Rosecarmel Very eloquent wordplay!

Regarding people saying what others want to hear ...I think that is quite often the case with stuff on the internet..."experts" say what the "group" they are speaking to wants to hear

Quote Mother of Dragons: I absolutely agree with you. However the individual we are discussing doesn’t sell himself as an expert on anything. And his “group” is made up of abuse victims, not solely child abuse victims of abusive parents

My comment was not particularly referring to Ollie. I was agreeing with a comment made by another poster!

I understand that from his work he will have access to many many examples of toxic, abusive parents

Quote: Motherof Dragons And toxic, abusive spouses, in laws, adult children, employers, extended family, friends, religious communities etc. He may have had abusive parents, but that is not his focus. He doesn’t hesitate to bring to the writer’s attention their own dysfunction and if he percieves that individual to in fact be the abuser, then he will let them know

Absolutely, but my point/query was purely in relation to his comment about "Baby Boomer" parents; the only reason why I referred toxic abusive parents in this context. .

Quote: Mother of Dragons: *Madgran77 I doubt research sources in terms of statistics for statements such as "a large percentage of you are narcissistic toxic scumbags" exist! If any such studies existed, I would love to read them too! But I don’t know how a study into percentages of a population being narcissistic toxic scumbags could be set up, never mind carried out.
From reading your posts over the years though, I think that you are an incredibly intelligent woman and that you know “data” into such a claim doesn’t (and couldn’t) exist. And I understand the point you are making.*

There is a significant amount of research on generational characteristics and in fact Holy Hannah's comment about how Ollie might use the information he has on abused estranged ACs to inform his comments, might well be a starting point. However "percentage" is a dangerous/misleading word to use without statistical evidence, he might have been better saying "the number of abused, estranged ACs [or whatever group description he chooses to use] I am aware of suggest that a significant number of ...are …"

Regarding any point I might be making, in fact my question re research was genuine. There is a point about sweeping generalisations though.

I remember when my s.i.l. was married to an abusive man, she came to stay with her parents and they were advising her to go back to him Madgran.

She did bless her but a few years later built up the courage to divorce him. As you say, some of the 'advice' people are given beggars belief.

rosecarmel’I always enjoy reading your posts, they have a certain eloquence to them.

I think this is very true:

For others, those that think what you see and know as throwing stones, they'll collect them to reinforce their garrisons

But also incredibly sad.

but there are also many who also give advice for setting boundaries, grey rock and all sorts of ways to maintain a relationship with an abusive parent.

Yes Starblaze I have to say I have been quite astounded by some advice I have seen/heard given to people estranging themselves from an abusive relationship. Good that you managed to find better, more relevant and helpful advice as you made your decision

Well, HolyHannah, your personal perception (a studied assessment of collective behaviors and templated, defensive narratives) provides insight-

However, that just simply might not be what some estranged parents are seeking, those that vehemently maintain their status as abandoned- I say "might" to leave room for benefit of doubt-

But I will say this, defensiveness varies- It can be rigid and "thick" and also soft and porous- So, the likelihood of you getting "through" is actually high- Enough to facilitate change, enough for reconciliation for some-

For others, those that think what you see and know as throwing stones, they'll collect them to reinforce their garrisons-

How many times have I been accused of "not believing" Estranged Parents or "not listening" to what EP's 'are saying'?

Yet again, there is the difference in perceptions... EP's hear something contrary to their narrative and just cannot carry on... It's all that nastiness! I actually DO read what EP's have to say and I DO believe them -- when they are telling the truth.

BOTH of the parents in what I quoted just admitted to being emotional child abusers. The very admission of expecting their children to fulfill their emotional needs means they NEGLECTED their child(ren)s emotional needs.

They already know and admitted that as well. And yet what do those same 'rejected parents' still do? Act like they did nothing wrong and have NOTHING to apologize for and worse claim to be victims of their 'abusive' EAC.

And people wonder why Ollie sounds angry in his videos about Narcissistic parents? It's the constant gas-lighting.

"Secretly know"-

Only questions ..

To what benefit would keeping a secret be? And who stands to benefit by it?

It can be difficult when you're confronted with it Starblaze.

Yes of course HolyHannah. You posted I guess the truth has a way of silencing some and I agreed with you and went on to give a reason why that can be the case, where someone is silenced by the truth because they're not speaking it.

Smileless -- When confronted with the truth/reality an emotionally healthy/mature person doesn't try to find a "suitable response" they own the behavior and apologize.

That must be very difficult Smileless

Yes truth can do that because it leaves the one not speaking the truth trying to find a suitable response, and not always succeeding.