Support for all who are living with estrangement

"Yes, it's good to be focussed on achievement and to stand on your own 2 feet as an adult etc. but some people are now cautioning that the drive to succeed and separate from your parents etc. should be balanced with ... so that individuals, couples, families, children and communities can flourish."

Aqua, I remember your story, too. Seems like one heartbreak after another! If I recall correctly, DS has decided to treat your sister like another GM, and you, understandably, resent that. So I imagine that he supervises your visits b/c he's afraid you might say something to your GC about who your sister really is. My guess is he's limiting your contact - no phone, no coming to their house - for much the same reason. I'm not sure why he won't let you call GD "little miss sunshine" - maybe b/c it's what you used to call her and he's trying to loosen the ties between you? If that's it, IMO, it's silly and immature on his part and won't work. If she feels close to you, she feels close to you, and eliminating a phrase won't change that. I know nothing I'm saying makes this any less painful. Sending lots of hugs!

About millennials, I agree w/ Minerva that it's not fair to paint all of them w/ one brush. My DD is a millennial and she is a warm, compassionate person, as is my SIL.

As for going NC, Iv heard of it before, even as a kid. Except it wasn't called that then, wasn't usually initiated by AC, and wasn't as methodical as it often is today. Also, it may not have been as widespread. Some of that may be b/c we didn't have the Internet years ago.

Ginny42
Thank you.
You are so right, we play the game, it's the right word, it's a mean and cruel game, but you know what I mean ....
I have my guard up, but am constantly surprised at how low AC and DIL go... I believe DIL is extremely wicked and mean. I feel for my little GC but she's used to it and how their family works.. I just thought I bought her normally.
I'm damned if I have sporadic access or not, we went NC for 3 months it was extremely painful. But supervised access not natural.
My extended family are as usual unsupportive non nothing.. no one to say to AC what are you doing , apologize , you're mad, nothing....
So isolated.
Sorry for negativity , ginny42 you're right no just desserts !!! It's a load of rubbish ? worst of all I'm envious of others, grandparents with grandchildren, there I said it I am !
Would love to have a mutual caring loving relationship.
To all those out there , take care and what can we do but not give up ??? ??

It's clear that they're supervising visits because your sister is masquerading as the child's grandmother and they don't want you to tell her the truth. It's such odd behaviour it's like a script from a play, except it's your real life. Your husband leaves you and marries your sister who then becomes your DGD's grandmother in your place. So that you can't exert influence over your GD you are to be supervised to conceal the truth. Bizarre behaviour.

Naturally you're jealous when you see other families having loving caring relationships with their grandchildren. You're not made of stone. So go along with what they allow. Be cautious but calm. Don't rise to the bait, just keep it factual and for the here and now, then leave. Try very hard not to be emotional. Let the child go away with a happy memory of you. Cry when you get home. Do not give up!!!

I've been estranged from my daughter since she was a young teen when my marriage broke up. I have 2 dc , and my daughter decided to remain with her father who then stopped her from seeing me, even moving away for a while so I never knew where they were. This was 20 years ago, and she has in that time married and had children, who I have never met ( they are primary school age) I have wrote many times to her asking that she meets me and decides for herself if I am worthy of knowing ! I have continued to send birthday/Christmas cards to both her and my gc, but honestly often feel like giving up. My other dc does have a good realationship with them, but I have never asked dc to get involved, incase it changes their relationship. I do get updates of anything major , and ask about her/family's wellbeing via them.

Aqua, I am so sorry and it must be a really awkward situation for you, but at least you do have contact and DGD will develop her own ideas about things in due course. I think you need to be optimistic here and play a long game.

Thank you so much for the support and comments about my upcoming meeting with DD after a 2 year estrangement. I am sorry for the delay in replying, partly because I have had a very busy couple of days, but also because I have been reflecting on the advice.

My feeling is that DD does want a reconciliation, at least of sorts, but I am indeed wary. She has suddenly started texting regularly and being quite 'chatty'. We are going to play it with a straight bat, I think, and just try to have a positive meeting, suggest a fresh start etc.

The financial support would be for a project which could help DD towards financial independence, which is why we want to support and encourage it. At present, she is totally dependent on SIL and, so far as I can make out, doesn't see anyone else, as she is not working, has lost touch with her friends as well as family, and lives hundreds of miles away.
And, although it makes me sound a weak and sad person, I would rather delude myself that she loves me, even if it costs me as, in weighing up the options, I would rather risk losing my money than my daughter.

DOLCELLATE
"The financial support would be for a project which could help DD towards financial independence, which is why we want to support and encourage it. At present, she is totally dependent on SIL and, so far as I can make out, doesn't see anyone else, as she is not working, has lost touch with her friends as well as family, and lives hundreds of miles away.
And, although it makes me sound a weak and sad person, I would rather delude myself that she loves me, even if it costs me as, in weighing up the options, I would rather risk losing my money than my daughter."

Completely understand your thinking here. I felt the same and indeed was dropped again once the finances were in place.
I truly hope for you this is a new beginning.

Honestly the only saving grace that I see in all of these estrangements is the fact that when our grandchildren get older we can contact them or they will contact us, if nothing else, but out of curiosity.
I’m sad for our children who made these awful choices and hope it’s not too late before they wake up and see what they are doing.

Aqua, I agree w/ Ginny that DS' and DIL's hiding the truth about who your sister is from GD is "bizarre behavior." It's also poor judgment on their part, IMO. I realize it's a difficult topic to handle, but I think they could have found a better way. Nothing you can do about that, of course.

She'll figure it out eventually, so IDK what they think they're "hiding."

Maybe if you follow their rules w/o argument or complaint, they will come to trust you more, in time, and loosen up the reins.

I'm sorry none of your family members have come to your defense. But they probably don't know the full extent of the problem. That might be just as well, though, b/c their getting in the middle would not likely do anything except make matters worse.

Dolcecatte, you said: "... so far as I can make out, (ED) doesn't see anyone else, as she is not working, has lost touch with her friends as well as family, and lives hundreds of miles away."

The "has lost touch with her friends as well as family" sends up a red flag for me. Apparently, she has moved far away, and that may be why she has lost touch w/ people, etc. However, it's generally easy to keep in touch these days via FB or Instagram or whatever. Are you sure she isn't doing this? If not, sorry to say, I'd be concerned. (I wouldn't say anything about it though at this time.) Unless she has pushed others away b/c they've tried to intervene on your and DH's behalf, as frequently happens nowadays. Then I would understand why she "lost touch" even if I didn't agree. Regardless, now, I'm more glad than ever that you and DH are meeting w/ her. Best of luck in advance!

I don't think you're weak at all Dolcelatte. You're responding to a situation. Your DD sounds pretty cut off and lonely actually, so this may be a new beginning for her in more than one sense. If it has the bonus of giving her some financial stability and independence all the better. Approaching this in a positive frame of mind is the way to build bridges. You're always going to be bit wary now, but that's no bad thing.

She's texting and being pleasant- she's turning to her parents. Good! You wouldn't want her to go to anyone else would you? It's far nicer to be on reasonable/good terms than to continue as you were. Go with your gut feeling, it's seldom wrong. Good luck! xx

I would do the same as you Dolcelatte. I hope it does workout well.

Having a sad spell. Sad for myself. Sad for all of you that are suffering. Sad at changes in the world that seem to me to be for the worse - maybe every generation feels that way?

Hugs all. x

Hugs back to you, hugshelp!

Star, Ginny and Hugs - Thank you all for your support, which is greatly appreciated. Also, sending lots of hugs back to you all, and will report back in a couple of weeks, after the meeting. I am still alternating between being joyful and terrified.

OMGthought our thread had been deleted again so emailed GNHQ who told me about the new 'Estrangement' forum.

Thanks for letting know GNHQ, thought I was going mad but I guess it's just that I'm menopausal.

Understand your pain Smileless hope others find it soon.

Its been a few months or maybe a year or so since I posted on here, some may remember me. Ive tried making contact with my estranged daughters and grandaughters but get rebuffed every time so Ive stopped trying. My youngest Ive not seen or spoken to for nearly 10 years. A year ago was the last time I had an email from my younger daughter saying she was in debt and struggling, and could I help her, so I asked her to come over to see me with all the debt paperwork and I would help sort out her finances with her ( she lives a couple of miles away) She said she wasnt going to come and could I send her some money, I said no Im not sending any money and that if she was in that much debt I want to see the proof and then I will help. Thats when the tone of her emails changed and she was vile to me!! I emailed back telling her that Im not getting into a fight with her so she stopped emailing.
Yesterday out of the blue, a year since her last email, I got a short email from her and once again she mentioned money and debt. Im still debating wether to reply to her, because I know that its going to end up like all the other times where she spills out vitriol toward me.
Too much has gone on over the last 10 years I feel I dont want a relationship with any of them now, they chose to have nothing to do with me. I dont hate them, neither do I feel love for them, I just feel numb!

Oh Jenny. I think I would feel numb too. This has been going on for so long now and the only time they're in touch is to ask for money. Words fail me. Sorry this is going to sound very harsh but clearly there is no love there at all, which is so hurtful.

For what it's worth, I would not send money. It won't buy you affection. You've reached that stage where you don't need them and don't want them on those terms. She becomes abusive because you don't do what she wants. That is bullying and you are wise not to engage with her.

I had to keep re-reading your post to make sure I'd understood. She's clearly in some kind of debt spiral and having had no contact with you in a normal happy mother daughter relationship, when things get really tough she gets in touch asking for money. Don't do it. What's in this relationship for you? Certainly not happiness.

Things must feel pretty bleak for you at the moment so I'm sending a hug. xx

My first post on here. I didn't realise there were so many people in the same boat as me....my daughter sent me her usual loving chatty message plus photos and the next st day when I went to reply, she had blocked me. This was 13 months ago and nothing I can do can elicit a response to my messages. Her little boy is a stranger to me, the Father she supposedly adored who is suffering from advanced cancer has been forgotten and today she sent me a short note to say she is coming through the pain I caused her and for me to say our situation was breaking my heart was nothing compared to what I'd done. She ended by saying she now has the support she has always needed and hoped I would find such support but it wouldn't be from someone such as myself.
What makes it worse is that my son and his wife talk about her every time they see me, my dil had hardly met her before my daughter moved abroad but they are bosom buddies now and dil talks about photos she's received and what a wonderful life my daughter is living even though I have said how much it hurts to hear about a life I have no part of. My son never curbs his wife although he can see how I am suffering.
Today my dh laid down the law to them and said my daughter's name was not to be mentioned in my presence as my health has been badly affected over this past year and he wasn't going to stand by and watch it happen. He told me after he had had the conversation, I was very upset to have come to this but relieved that my husband had taken a stand.
Like others on this forum my sense of shame and worthlessness is overwhelming me, I thought we had lovely relationship but, obviously, I was wrong. How can something be fine one day and the next day so dreadfully wrong?
This has made me withdraw from my friends as I don't know if their smiles are masking dislike , nor do I want them to know what's happened as I feel they will think that something must have happened to make her not want anything to do with me, who would believe it came out of the blue with no warning?
My husband is at his wit's end worrying about me and I hate the way I can't shake these feelings off. We are living on borrowed time and should be making happy memories now not me desperately trying to put a cheerful face on as soon as I wake up but wishing I could stay in bed and sleep the pain away.
I don't't know if any other s on this thread would attach any importance to the fact that my daughter joined a church about 18 months ago. The last thing I expected of a scientist.

Also, I am taking a leap of faith by posting here as I posted on a different site a year or two ago about my husband's illness. It was a closed group of partners who were caring for people with the same illness and I discovered that someone had shared my post. I contacted Admin who told me that the etiquette was that all posts were between the members only, apologised but said little could be done. I contacted the woman who had shared my post, she had recognised me from details I had foolishly made public, but she never replied to me
This garbled post has made me feel better, knowing there are people out there who understand the pain and despair is heartening. I hope I haven't hijacked this thread by just jumping on. Thank you to anyone who has read it

I have read your post Dayone and I feel sad and hurt for you. No, you haven't hijacked the thread.
Your d.i.l. is stirring. She knows it will hurt you. They love to see us hurting. I am glad your DH has asked them not to mention your daughter's name. Good for him !
Science and Religion do not mix. There's something not right here....looks like she is being brainwashed.
Hope you can put things aside and enjoy your life with your DH. All the best xx

Day one
We all feel and share your pain. I'm so sorry for your situation. It seems like there are lots of people going through such pain and heartache.
There are days when I weep uncontrollably , I miss GC and being a granny, there's no resolution , so people really don't know how to cope, does the hurt lessen , realise my Dil is a witch, but alas nothing I can do , out of my control, my AC is unreasonable and cruel, isn't life hard !!! ?..

Oh dear Jenty61 - to have the pain of estrangement rubbed in by contact only to ask for money, and not even be prepared to meet up with you about that money - just awful. What are they thinking when they think this is ok?

I am so sorry to read your post Dayone. I can so relate to the fact that one day things are ok then the next your world is turned upside down and you don't even know why. Also, this sudden, 'I'm getting the support I always missed from you elsewhere' when you feel like you did your best to be there and they never said it was lacking in the past. I feel like my ES was 'brainwashed' by therapy and online internet groups to a degree. The fact that you mention religion worries me. Could it be a cult?
I am so sorry you have the worries about your husband on top of all this.

Welcome back Jenty I think it's more like a year since you posted and I'm so sorry that you remain estranged.

I totally understand your reluctance to respond to your ED's email which is a request for money. I'm assuming there were no pleasantries; 'how are you mum', sorry it's been so long since I've been in touch', that sort of thing.

The numbness you mention happens to so many EP's over time. "I don't hate them, neither do I feel love for them, I just feel numb!". I feel the same way about our ES.

At first the feeling of numbness shocked me but eventually I was grateful for it as it protects me from the pain that the loss of our son had swamped my life with.

I too no longer desire a relationship with our ES and as this is how you feel, you'd be better not responding to her email. The numbness that you feel now is surely preferable to re igniting the pain that resuming contact may well bring.

You are welcome Dayone and how brave of you to take that leap of faith and share your pain and sorrow here. This thread is for you, us and all who are living with the pain of estrangement.

You said this appears to have happened since your D joined a church and said this is the last thing you'd have expected from a "scientist". Am I right in thinking that you D has joined the church of Scientology? If so, this may well be the explanation for her behaviour.

I'm no expert, far from it, but what little I do know about this organisation is it encourages members to dis associate themselves from 'non believers'. I think crazyH has hit the nail on the head.

Good for your DH, having that conversation with your S and d.i.l. Hopefully they'll have got the message and find more appropriate and less upsetting topics of conversation.

Although the last 13 months seem like a life time for you, it is still early days where the pain is raw which is why you just want to sleep rather than have to face another day.

It takes time but it will pass and there's no point in trying to "shake off" your feelings, it wont work and will just make you feel even worse.

Try and accept that this is how you feel; there's nothing wrong with you for feeling this way. Sleep when you can and keep talking to your DH who clearly understands what you're going through, not least because he's going through it too.

Try not to alienate your friends. you may be pleasantly surprised at how understanding and supportive some, if not all, can be. We were.

"Who would believe it came out of the blue with no warning?" We do, we believe you. So having jumped in and in no way hijacking this thread, please stay in touch.

thanks Smileless, didnt realise it was that long, how time flies.

Well I suppose I knew it was coming,, but those who know my story will understand when I say that I think my DD is finally being driven to divorce. My SiL's behaviour towards me and it seems criticising her constantly and alienating her from friends too, is taking its toll. Of course she has to think of her DS and knows that she must take things slowly. Her OH's mental illness and his denial that he needs help and a higher level of medication is proving too great. I cannot reveal too much of the detail, but she's decided she's coming to the UK for an extended stay and hope that he can get his head sorted. Meanwhile she will be surrounded by people here who love her and my GS.

So some bitter and some sweet for now.