Support for all who are living with estrangement

You're out of line agnurse you believe what others have told you and yet you have the audacity to tell me I can't believe in the man I've known for more than 40 years.

He was upset. You constantly come onto the estrangement threads and know nothing about being CO by your own AC. You know nothing about second guessing yourself when you hear the lies that are told about you, and even though you know them to be false, you still question, still doubt.

This is not a court of law, it's a thread to support those living with estrangement. But if this were a court of law, what you've been told by those who have 'witnessed' certain events would not be evidence from you; it would be hear say.

I think it is imperative on a thread specifically for support of members struggling with estrangement, that we should listen with empathy and support where we feel we can. If we cannot, then I think we should be silent.

Advice can be termed in a non aggressive way and if you feel you can't offer anything constructive, perhaps it's best to keep opinions to ourselves. If it doesn't help it hinders, or worse still - hurts the poster. They are hurting enough without an onslaught from members.

Ginny42 I agree wholeheartedly!

True Ginny, 'support' is what EP come to this site for. I know I did, when my older son and d.i.l. were treating me with heartless emotional cruelty. I came here to offload. Things are better now, and my advice is : don't give up trying........an iceberg can eventually melt. I would like to ask all of you, still struggling..........keep that candle of hope burning under the iceberg of estrangement.

Smileless

I am not out of line. Let me explain.

My husband, who witnessed what his father did, has made statements about what he saw. I believe his statements.

Your husband does not recall if he said that or not. Your son, who was there, states that he did. Therefore, we have one person who states it happened, and one person who isn't even sure if it happened or not. Note that your husband did not state that it didn't happen.

My husband is high-functioning autistic and it has been mentioned by other people that he actually has quite balanced and on the whole accurate memories of many things that happen - including things where he himself was cast in a less than ideal light.

There's no show show without Punch.

You are out of line agnurse; not for the first time and probably not for the last.

You have taken my post which was in relation to 'memories' of events that haven't happened and once again, you have jumped in with the assumption that the parent must be wrong and the AC has to be right.

You are content to take on board other peoples views with regard to your own husband but dismiss my knowledge, not my view but my knowledge of the man I've known for more than 40 years and have been married too for 38.

You have a lot to say to defend those who CO their parents and their children from their GP's lives but no comprehension of the extent of the lengths that some are prepared to go too in order to turn others against them.

Having been on the receiving end of far worse false allegations made by our ES it's clear to me where this particular one came from.

You believe your husband's statements about his father even though you weren't there to witness the events he has spoken of. If your f.i.l.. were to deny his allegations you no doubt would still believe your husband.

You don't have to be present to know if something someone has been accused of is true or false, even if in a moment of shock, distress and self doubt, the accused questions themselves.

When I told our DS at the time that like his brother, he was 'remembering' something that had never happened, he too had a look of confusion and self doubt. Not for the first time when recounting his brother's stories and not the last.

so glad that worked out well bopeep
wish I had some good advice for you rhinestone - in my experience NC means nothing but some people do gets bits and pieces, so I can only wish you well whatever you go with
I find your comment about therapists and false memories really interesting smileless - by DH is convinced an awful lot of the problems with our ES have been caused by a therapist.
He's been seeing them for years since he had a major meltdown due to work stress. He's changed therapists a few times before the latest one. But only during talking to this particular one did he 'discover' he was angry with me - but for ages he had no idea why. At one point he was convinced he must have been abused as a child and have no memory of it to be that angry but since then he has apparently changed the 'real' reason he's angry with me and the memories several times - but I have yet to actually be told any details. I just know he's apparently getting angrier and angrier and more unlikely to ever make contact and we really don't understand what is feeding this chain of thought.
As to your incident with the van I think they sometimes feel more angry or upset about an incident than the actual situation warrants, so for some reason they add extra embelishments until the memory fits the degree of emotion they feel. As though they have to justify how upset they are so they make the memories fit how they feel. I have seen this with quite a few people.

I have sympathy for all who are struggling with the many hurts life throws at us but I'm sticking to responding to those who are here hurting because their loved ones have gone NC as that is my own situation and why I'm on this thread.

Lovely words Ginny and crazyH thank you.

Been spending a couple of days catching up with my sis and Dhs brother, a bit of our own generation family time and that has been good for my heart. I still wake up and the first thing I think of before I'm really awake is my Es, maybe that will always be the case, it means starting the day feeling sad, but I am finding things to bring me small spells of love and joy and I hope you all are too.
Thinking of you all.

Smileless, and others, please do not be upset by agnurse. I believe that she is deliberately provocative as a form of attention seeking. She is also on Mumsnet upsetting people there, currently on a thread about the abortion changes in Alabama. I would suggest that we just ignore her comments in future and perhaps, if she doesn't get the reaction she is seeking, she may get bored and move on to make a nuisance of herself elsewhere. It's just not worth your time and energy in responding.

Agreed dolcelatte,

She has also been upsetting everyone on the Gransnet Alabama Abortion thread and nearly every thread on this site has Agnurse piping in with her aggressive and nasty postering. I think we should all ask gransnet to remove her, neither being a grandmother or a an over fifty but most importantly being a troll and bully. They are losing using members because of her so I’m sure they will want to sort the issue.
I don’t mind when younger people come on to ask gran advice or get our perspective on something, but her intents are just to troll, cause upset and arguments.
These tactics work because we all rise to the bait. Going forward I advise we ignore her, and every time she posts on a new users post, warm them to ignore any comment she makes. It’s our neighbor troll, please ignore while she stamps her feet.
Sorry to everyone on this thread dealing with trauma and having to put up with her nonsense.

Agree Dolcellate and DillytheGardener. There has to be a reason when someone responds in an unhelpful and unpleasant way. Yes there are different opinions, but I think we can see a pattern that just goes on and on and.................

I am now trying very hard not to respond but sometimes we just have to. We know deep down, if our family has been brought up in a loving relationship and an attack on that can prove too much. Probably hence the reason estrangement is so hard for us to comprehend.

Morning ladies. So good to read your understanding and supportive posts.

The 4th paragraph of your post is excellent hugshelp; adding "extra embelishments until the memory fits the degree of emotion they feel".

Transference is another issue. Some of the incidents that our ES has alluded too have been his wife's experiences with her own parents. I know this to be the case as her mother and I were good friends before the two of them met.

As you say itstormy sometimes "we just have to respond". When you post here and all or part of your post is misunderstood and/or singled out for criticism, for me it re ignites those feelings of anger, frustration and helplessness that I experienced for far too long when our estrangement started.

These feelings are exacerbated when an explanation is given but is simply dismissed. On the plus side, at least our explanations are 'heard' here and communication is possible, unlike the case with our estranged AC.

"extra embelishments until the memory fits the degree of emotion they feel".

I think that makes a lot of sense, hugshelp. I also think some people project irrational thoughts they had themselves at the time onto another person w/o realizing it. For example, Smileless, at the time of that incident, DS may have been thinking something like, "Wow, Dad's so mad, I bet he wishes I'd never been born!" Now perhaps, he's remembering his own (foolish) thoughts as if Mr. S said them.

Also, I know what you mean about "transference," Smileless. In the past, my own DD occasionally transferred something a friend experienced onto herself, talking/acting as if she had been through it, and I had to remind her, "No, that was your friend who that happened to/your friend's mom who did that, not you/me." Fortunately, she always saw, right away, that I was correct, and this hasn't happened again for years. I'm sorry ES that's not the case w/ ES.

.x.?
Flowers for one of the kindest, most supportive posters on here....Smileless.
Perhaps one day, when the badness is removed, I and others will be able to give and receive the same kindness and support.

Thank you so much IrishRose for your lovely post x

Agree IrishRose.
for Smileless

In the years that there has been this thread it has always brought out those who seem to be determined to make the pain and hurt experienced when you are estranged worse. I suppose it will always happen, what I would say is those of you who have been here supporting others just keep on doing what you do, I know this kind of support is a 'life-saver' for many. It is those people that you are helping that are so important.

Morning all
Talking about false memory; my ED told the tale that she was sitting at the top of the stairs after a big argument with her stepdad and he asked me the question It's me or the kids and my reply was It's you That's is so ridiculous, we had been married for 8yrs, together about 9yrs, my children were about 14,17 &20 I absolutely adored my children and there would have been no way I would have said or even thought such a thing. In fact it was the antics of my now estD that did brake us up in the end!

The tale was told to her sister, after I was cut out, just before she was.

Indeed smileless.
It does seem that transference and unreliable memories are actually really common. Which makes it all so much more difficult to navigate.

Sigh...

"extra embelishments until the memory fits the degree of emotion they feel"

I'd be skeptical to think only certain people suffer from the above-

I think the hardest part of reflection, for anyone, is not being able to see one's own image in the mirror- In other words, not seeing one's self in others-

A mother in another thread could see what she did, the mistake she made, and then two seconds later couldn't -- again ..

She was being selfish and greedy, repeatedly- So, I said so -- and took flack for it- As if I had no knowledge of my own mistakes, my selfishness and greed and experience with these things- Nope ..

I was just being mean ..

rosecarmel

Agree 100%.

It's so helpful to hear of others who've experienced their AC's 'memories' Yogagirl. When you experience it in isolation you think it's just you but when you realise how common it is when there's estrangement, although we'll never really understand why it happens, it's comforting none the less.