School uniform for girls

I have 2 thoughts
1) Its not girls' uniform as such but either that school is too tolerant of how the girls choose to adapt their uniform (hands up anybody who has never turned over their waistband to make their skirt shorter?) Or perhaps it's the individuals
But more important
2) thanks to St Trinians etc, girls' school uniform, like sexy French Maids, forms the basis for many an adult male fantasy.
Is the answer to insist on trousers? Or opaque tights? And why should girls wear ties when adults women don't?
I would like to see a radical rethink of uniform to design something practical, decent, attractive, distinctive and NOT EXPENSIVE.

I agree MawsRosie
It’s all down to the Head of the school to lay down ground rules and tiny skirts that can show underwear should not be allowed.

Since girls and women all wear trousers most of the time it seems sensible that all schoolchildren wear them.
This means wearing a fleece type top over them for colder weather which is comfortable.

I think that trousers should be mandatory, and also that shirts and ties should be dropped. Even though most men probably don't wear them any more, now that many tie-wearers work from home, they represent a particular male style of dress.

They are not universal at all. Many men don't wear ties to work these days, and there is no need at all for girls to wear them, as virtually no women wear them. They send the message that girls can be educated as honorary men, which (IMO) is not a healthy message.

When I asked a teacher why they didn’t enforce the rules on uniform, the response was that ‘we pick our battles’.
The school in question is a well-regarded private day and boarding school.

Yes, they do. Having a set of daft rules means that if battles have to be picked there will be always be a ready-prepared focus for them.

Is that a good or a bad thing?

It is a problem that has been going on for decades and not only with schoolgirls. My husband attended an all boys’ secondary school in the early seventies. Most of the teachers were men but there were a few women, including one young woman. This teacher dressed in the fashion of the day, which included mini skirts and dresses. Not the most sensible choice of clothes when you are young, attractive and surrounded by adolescent boys and she should have known better. There were gaggles of boys at the stairwell each break watching in open-mouthed enjoyment as she ascended the stairs. A cry would go up: “what’s the colour of the rainbow today?”referring to the colour of her knickers.

I don't believe in school uniforms for children. Uniforms are for armies and hierarchical organisations like the police. European schools manage perfectly well with just a dress code like no logos, etc. The UK is hopelessly old fashioned in this respect. School uniforms are gendered, expensive and DO NOT promote equality or prevent bullying.

They are pretty strict here about uniforms . Private and state schools but sometimes you do see kids looking a bit scruffy but never with skirts like that. No teachers would let that one go. The worst is shirts hanging over trousers for the boys and not tucked in properly! None of the kids complain, just an expectation. Private schools tend to be stricter and you have to buy from their recommended suppliers which are ridiculously expensive. However, most have thriving used uniform shops ! Must be a totally different value set because even little kinder and primary school kids have uniforms. It identifies which particular school a child attends .

What’s the advantage in identifying which school a child goes to?

I agree with friendlygingercat.

School security is a huge issue-not least student and staff safety, and valuable equipment eg laptops or students’ phones which are very portable and while in theory visitors report to reception, as a former Secondary teacher it was important to distinguish young adults who were entitled to be on site from anybody who had wandered in on the off chance. Uniform does just that.
It also removes the time consuming “what shall I wear today “ deliberations which teenagers-and not exclusively girls- may go through.
2 of our 3 Ds wore uniform right through their schooldays, Sixth form included, while the youngest changed to a non- uniform Sixth form after GCSE’s and this was a point she made to me. She said it was hard to keep “good” jeans or trousers for the weekend when you wanted to be seen looking good at school too.

European schools manage perfectly well

Yes. Did you know that France very recently ran a pilot scheme for two years to see whether introducing school uniform might be a good idea? They have abandoned the thought as uniform neither improved the behaviour of pupils nor gave them a special identity.

My daughters both wore pleated tartan kilts at school. It was possible to roll them up, but that ended up in a bulky mess round the waist like a spare tyre, so no one bothered.

I was very strict about what pupils wore and how they wore it, even down to straw hats with ribbons in summer! We'd do a quick check on appearance when going off the school premises, but they were only up to age 13 years so no one tried anything silly! I liked to see the children looking smart, but to be honest this was mainly driven by the parents.

Mine loved their school uniform (including the daughter who went into a job in fashion), as it saved their clothes for the weekend. As a mother, I loved the lack of daily pressure to purchase more of the " right" clothing.
As a teacher, I loved it because we had a store of donated uniforms which could be given to children who needed it.
Uniform policy in the school in which my teenage son is a pupil is policed by senior leaders, not individual teachers. There are no " pelmets" as far as I can see.

I think uniforms are a great thing for all the obvious reason.

DD1 was sent home from her (Independent) school by the head who told her to come back when she had added a skirt to the belt she was wearing. Luckily we only lived a 10 minute walk away.

Shopping recently with DGD2, I noticed that short skirts now seem to come with integral shorts.

My DGDs and their friends seem to wear those black lycra cycling shorts under their skirts.

All the secondary schools locally have pelmets for skirts. I am reliably told by my teenage GD's that lycra shorts are worn over pants. I am surprised the schools haven't done away with skirts and introduced smart trousers instead,

They might just as well wear shorts instead of skirts then, if the skirts are so short they need shorts underneath them.

🤷‍♀️

They probably aren’t tiny skirts they are probably turned over and over. (Guilty as charged)

Just bring in trousers and jumpers and shirts for both boys and girls for winter, with optional shorts and polo shirts for hot weather.

Black, flat shoes and PE kit.

They are not in the armed forces and simply have to look relatively smart, “uniform” and practical.

We don’t live in the dark ages, even in the City work clothing is far more relaxed than it used to be.

It is their education which matters, and part of that, both at school and at home, is teaching both boys and girls to respect each other.

What we’ll never stop though are teenage hormones …..

One of our local senior schools has just banned skirts.

They allegedly have strict rules on the style of trousers for both girls and boys.

The elder girls (now in yr 11 & 10) were not impressed by this, nor the style of trousers.

I did a year at school at 14/15 in a school in California.

I loved the fact that there was no “formal”uniform. Most of us wore jeans or shorts and T shirts, whether male or female. I loved it!

We also had mixed age groups within each different class, which meant streaming by attainment/ability rather than age, we also studied the same 6 subjects each day, English and PE were mandatory, maths was only compulsory until a certain level reached. We started school at 7:30am and finished at 2:30pm. Very little truancy and very little behavioural issues.

This was not a private school but a very large co-education “public” school, (totally different meaning to our own public schools here), very sadly, for me, my dearest mama loathed living in California, though myself and DF loved it as much as she loathed it.

So, thanks to her, we relocated back to England and I was sent back to my old girls Secondary modern, uniform and all!

It took me years to “forgive” her! But it was an amazing experience, which I never forgot and was extremely Lucy as back in the early 70’s not many people travelled internationally.

Oreo

Since girls and women all wear trousers most of the time it seems sensible that all schoolchildren wear them.
This means wearing a fleece type top over them for colder weather which is comfortable.

Yes!

Cossy

I did a year at school at 14/15 in a school in California.

I loved the fact that there was no “formal”uniform. Most of us wore jeans or shorts and T shirts, whether male or female. I loved it!

We also had mixed age groups within each different class, which meant streaming by attainment/ability rather than age, we also studied the same 6 subjects each day, English and PE were mandatory, maths was only compulsory until a certain level reached. We started school at 7:30am and finished at 2:30pm. Very little truancy and very little behavioural issues.

This was not a private school but a very large co-education “public” school, (totally different meaning to our own public schools here), very sadly, for me, my dearest mama loathed living in California, though myself and DF loved it as much as she loathed it.

So, thanks to her, we relocated back to England and I was sent back to my old girls Secondary modern, uniform and all!

It took me years to “forgive” her! But it was an amazing experience, which I never forgot and was extremely Lucy as back in the early 70’s not many people travelled internationally.

That is really interesting Cossy what a great experience for you! Thanks for sharing.

The skirts like pelmets issue has been going on since I was at school. Even having to kneel on a bench to have the height above the knee checked only changed skirt length temporarily.
My biggest concern here is that girls should be made to wear trousers because of the behaviour of boys. Can you imagine saying all boys must wear skirts and that rule being put into place?
I had a reason to visit an FE college yesterday. No compulsory uniform as these were all technically children who have left School, but almost over the students I saw wore black hoodies and jogging bottoms or occasionally short skirts with black tights, as if they have decided that uniform is a good thing.

Mollygo

The skirts like pelmets issue has been going on since I was at school. Even having to kneel on a bench to have the height above the knee checked only changed skirt length temporarily.
My biggest concern here is that girls should be made to wear trousers because of the behaviour of boys. Can you imagine saying all boys must wear skirts and that rule being put into place?
I had a reason to visit an FE college yesterday. No compulsory uniform as these were all technically children who have left School, but almost over the students I saw wore black hoodies and jogging bottoms or occasionally short skirts with black tights, as if they have decided that uniform is a good thing.

I think trousers and shorts are far more practical in school settings.

At my DD’s coed secondary schools both DDs had the choice of skirts or trousers. After term 1 both opted for trousers for the rest of their schooling.

It’s not just about boys behaviour.