Father removes 9 yr old daughter from school over sex ed lessons

My eldest grandson was 9 last week & just finished year 4. A month before the end of term he came home with a leaflet explaining the sex education curriculum for his school. He will be taught the correct names for body parts, consent & what changes will happen to his body. He will also be informed about masturbation, ( and to try it for homework) anal &oral amongst other things. From what has been discussed in this thread, some of this information should be taught at secondary school, but it's happening earlier. I believe schools out source the materials for this from various organisations( I apologise in advance of this is incorrect) & perhaps this is where the problems lie. That what is taught,although part of the curriculum, varies from school to school or education authority.

My junior school wasn’t affiliated to any religion but school assembly every morning contained 3 hymns. By the age of 11 we all knew the words to circa 200 hymns and at 78 I still do. The two Jewish children who were allowed to leave the hall when hymns started, hardly ever did so. RE was for Sunday School. Sex education wasn’t thought of and when, during a needlework lesson ( the boys had woodwork ) the female teacher explained about periods, 4 of us 10/11 yr olds, had already started ours. She asked us to tell the class how it affected us. All 4 of us said explaining why we couldn’t go swimming to the male teacher was horrible as we all lied about the real reason.

The school policy should be on their website

Actually, if children are being shown inappropriate material in school settings or being set inappropriate homework, I think asking for where and how this is happening is completely appropriate from a safeguarding perspective
Which is exactly why I recommend people to contact the school they’re interested in and find out what goes on for themselves.

Ok

Well if it's happening I'm sure there is some proof somewhere

This isn't philosophy

This is safeguarding children

I dare say.

Do you think I believe everything I read? Very few people do, funnily enough. We tend towards confirmation bias on the whole.

Anyway, I strongly suspect that the demands for proof are mischievous, so I am not getting further involved in a discussion of what counts as proof, and whether it is reasonable to expect people to provide it.

Difference being...

I don't tend to just believe what I read online

There are enough people out there who think drinking your own urine is a great idea or you can cure autism with bleach or can't understand that the main side effect of vaccines is living children.

Common sense is contagious if enough people don't buy into unprovable nonsense

This could go round in circles forever.

I agree that asking where and how it is happening is a good idea, but how do you know? Do you have proof?

No. You know what you have read online, the same as everyone else.

That is all I am saying. I have already said what I think (that in a discussion of this type it is the concepts that matter), but anyone demanding proof is going to be disappointed.

Doodledog

But can you prove it didn't happen in other schools? Lol.

Of course you can't, and it is not a reasonable thing to ask, is it?

Actually, if children are being shown inappropriate material in school settings or being set inappropriate homework, I think asking for where and how this is happening is completely appropriate from a safeguarding perspective

I have answered all need for proof put to me with facts

If other facts are available I'd like to see them rather than hysteria causing conjecture spreading about the place that appears unfounded and uncalled for

I feel 9 is too young for graphic and detailed sex education. Can't they have some innocence? There's plenty of time for all of that later. Having said that, if parents can't be trusted to answer questions truthfully then I suppose the school has to step in. And sadly there may be some children who are being sexually abused. There should be some gentle and tactful way for that kind of subject to come up, so they feel encouraged to speak to teachers. Not sure the best way to go about it however

Lathyrus

It’s hard to know what you would accept as proof.

Not reports in newspapers or on the internet.

Not anecdotal as in parents say this is what my child has been taught.

Not social media.

Not accounts of parents being denied access to curriculum and lesson plans. And removing their children because they are deeply untrusting of professional integrity.

These build up to a body of evidence that something is happening but the aura of secrecy and the patronising insistence “Nothing to see here. On your way” can just as easily be a cloak.

Why, if there is nothing that would disturb, is there such reluctance to involve parents and to be open about what is taught.

We do know for a fact that material designed to be for teenagers has been shown to 9 and 10 year olds. That surely should raise questions as to why and how that decision was taken.

Some might argue that the more knowledge a child is given and the earlier, the better their education.
Or those with in-depth understanding of children’s learning might argue that it is most effective and enduring it begins where the child is at, at a level of present interest and understanding. And that too much, presented at an adult level, leads to confusion and misunderstandings.

Anyway, there is sufficient concern aroused for there to be an official enquiry taking place. We await the outcome. Would you accept their findings as valid?

Well said Lathyrus
It's rather difficult to describe precisely what was in the BBC lesson as it has been withdrawn, even for GCSE pupils for whom it was intended but some topics were as described. Presumably someone higher up at the BBC thought it should be withdrawn too and no doubt questions are being asked there.

Suffice it to say that it was not age appropriate for 8-9 year olds.

Why do those who believe this material is suitable for that age group, that nothing should be off the agenda as that is empowering for children, attack other posters as if they think everything related to sex is taboo? They haven't said that at all.

They do not, but they believe that yes, sex education should be taught but in stages appropriate for the age group and in the context of biology and family relationships at primary age.

I don’t think that anything people do in bed is new. Each generation thinks they invented it, but that’s because it is new to them, and there is something taboo about imagining your parents being sexual beings.

I agree.

However, My parents abstained - were not sexual beings.

We went to a religion based school, had religious education and sex education. I was fairly sure, after my parents and nun told us about sex - mum was Mary's cousin and my eldest sister was conceived immaculately.

I know someone who back in the day masturbated from a young age (certainly younger than 9) and at 11 suddenly ejaculated. He was terrified that he had broken it and after a month of agonising worry took himself off to the school library to find out how much damage he had done. He didn't dare tell his mother and his father worked away. He wasn't sure that other boys of his age did this so was completely on his own. Imagine his relief when the library told him he was perfectly normal and he could masturbate to his heart's content! 2 years later, he got a sex education based on the biology of an animal!

But can you prove it didn't happen in other schools? Lol.

Of course you can't, and it is not a reasonable thing to ask, is it?

Reasonably skilled teachers can inform and discuss all manner of difficult topics in age- appropriate language and imagary.

Lol!

So much double standards

I've already shared quite a lot, What this father actually said, the actual lesson content in his words, interviews with other parents which don't back him up, the actual curriculum and the fact that all parents can refuse lessons as well as my own experience with a child in primary and working for a large academy

I've done my leg work

£51, I could get a very nice cardigan for that

VioletSky

At least those who have genuine concerns about this 1 school showing 1 video by mistake which only 1 parent complained about...

Should be stamping down on the other nonsense rather than chucking more fuel on the fire

Do you have proof that this only happened in one school? Or that it happened by mistake? Or that other parents were not concerned?

Can you provide that, please?

Or are you, like everyone else, going on what is in the press (whether you take it as gospel or not) and discussing it in that light?

That is all that any of us can do, and it is not for anyone to 'stamp down' on discussion on a discussion board.

“As most of them are not sexualised yet, it should stand them in good stead when sex tears it’s head.”

I think this is typical of what’s been called “the hurry-up” curriculum. The idea that the sooner we teach things the better.

It’s been applied to many subjects over the past 20 or so years, such as Maths and English, with no very positive results. Why do some think we’ll produce a generation that enjoys sex more or is less abused because of being introduced to it earlier, That also is a statement that lacks proof.

There is an oft repeated but oft disregarded mantra:

The best way to prepare a child for being a teenager is to allow them to be a child.

If I had a pound for every time I have been asked for proof by the people now complaining about it... I would have at least £50

Not to be sneezed at in the cost of living crisis

At least those who have genuine concerns about this 1 school showing 1 video by mistake which only 1 parent complained about...

Should be stamping down on the other nonsense rather than chucking more fuel on the fire

Well said, Lathyrus.

These constant demands for 'proof' are tiresome. How are people on a discussion site likely to have any more proof than anyone else unless we are personally involved, and even then, anecdotal evidence is not 'proof'?

We all have access to the Internet, so if anyone wants 'proof', they can do the legwork themselves and look for information that will prove or disprove something to their own satisfaction.

In the meantime, people will continue discussing what is in the news on the N&P section of a discussion board. Nobody has sworn on oath that they know anything to be true - it is the ideas that matter. It's one thing to ask for sources, so people aren't simply repeating their own prejudices, but insisting that we investigate everything that is reported in the media and provide 'proof' would imply close down GN if we let it.

Good post Lathyrus.

It’s hard to know what you would accept as proof.

Not reports in newspapers or on the internet.

Not anecdotal as in parents say this is what my child has been taught.

Not social media.

Not accounts of parents being denied access to curriculum and lesson plans. And removing their children because they are deeply untrusting of professional integrity.

These build up to a body of evidence that something is happening but the aura of secrecy and the patronising insistence “Nothing to see here. On your way” can just as easily be a cloak.

Why, if there is nothing that would disturb, is there such reluctance to involve parents and to be open about what is taught.

We do know for a fact that material designed to be for teenagers has been shown to 9 and 10 year olds. That surely should raise questions as to why and how that decision was taken.

Some might argue that the more knowledge a child is given and the earlier, the better their education.
Or those with in-depth understanding of children’s learning might argue that it is most effective and enduring it begins where the child is at, at a level of present interest and understanding. And that too much, presented at an adult level, leads to confusion and misunderstandings.

Anyway, there is sufficient concern aroused for there to be an official enquiry taking place. We await the outcome. Would you accept their findings as valid?

Where is your proof of this, please jane.

I keep asking for proof this is happening, but page after page people keep repeating this as if it is a truth but offering no proof whatsoever.