Father removes 9 yr old daughter from school over sex ed lessons

very well said choughdancer.

I'm very conflicted about this. I do think it is important for children to know about their bodies and bodily functions, but I also feel that it should be age appropriate and learning in detail about anal sex or even oral sex for a child under 12 or 13 isn't necessary.

My feeling is that it IS vital at a young age and throughout their lives is to understand that if anyone, whether family member or not, does anything to their bodies that they don't like or feel uncomfortable about, it is wrong. They should know that the person abusing them is lying if they say it is normal or that everyone does it or some other reason for not telling their teacher or a trusted adult. This could apply to non-sexual abuse, like pinching them, hitting them or pulling their hair.

This way they won't become over sexualised by seeing graphic images or video; they can just stay safe by not being trapped into not reporting abuse.

I also think it is important that they don't feel ashamed about masturbating, that it's normal and that many children do it. I don't think it needs to be over sexualised, just that it is normal behaviour; perhaps with some reference to where it is not acceptable, alongside maybe pooing and peeing in front of other people.

Agree with your post of 15.30 Doodledog far too specific for the age group, I would have concerns too if my child was being taught in this way.

Information overload only leads to confusion and often distress and muddle.

It applies to any learning in this age group and any subject. We don’t teach 9 year olds Maths at University level or introduce them to Roman civilisation by an analysis of the Gallic wars.

It’s just plain bad education. So if it’s not justifiable in terms of all we know about children’s learning and understanding, why would anyone want to teach about sex in a way that they know will lead to confusion 🤔🤔🤔

Why are schools teaching about specific sexual preferences anyway. How qualified are these teachers to teach this, or are stonewall dictating the remit.

Sexual preferences are just that - preferences. I would be very uncomfortable with a teacher (or anyone) 'making sure it's understood what is enjoyable', as VS suggests. People enjoy different things, and it 'making sure that it is understood what is enjoyable' sounds horribly coercive to me.

Sex education has always been a tricky area, as parents have different ideas about what they want their children to be taught about and at what age. I think that teaching about changing bodies and about what sex is is a good thing at 9. Children, specially girls, can be going through puberty then, and they shouldn't be frightened by what is happening to their bodies. But telling them about specific practices such as anal sex is a step too far, IMO.

VioletSky

What on earth could possibly be wrong with teaching children about their own actual bodies

Nothing. Should be age appropriate, I would think. Or is it anything goes with some nowadays. Personally if I had a child hearing this in school, at that young age, I would remove them also. Why are schools teaching about specific sexual preferences anyway. How qualified are these teachers to teach this, or are stonewall dictating the remit.

^What age should Sex Education be taught UK?
age 11 upwards^
Schools maintained by local authorities in England are obliged to teach Sex and Relationship Education (SRE) from age 11 upwards, and must take into account the Department for Education's (DfE) Sex and Relationship Education guidance, published in 2000.5 Apr 2019

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/relationships-and-sex-education-in-schools-whats-changing/#:~:text=Schools%20maintained%20by%20local%20authorities,Education%20guidance%2C%20published%20in%202000.

It seems this school had its own ideas about what is appropriate and when.

Callistemon21

Keeper1

I believe it wasn’t just teaching about their bodies and contraception. They were being taught about anal sex and given masturbation for homework

If that's the case parents should be demanding at the highest levels, why this is on the curriculum for Y4.

They should also be asking who, at the BBC, is responsible for these BBC Bitesize programmes and videos and what their own motives are.

From what I have read, and could have got it wrong, there is no prescribed curriculum as such, with this subject.

Schools are free, within certain guidelines, to teach it how they want.

Hence why, in another post, I said what used to be done as regards speak with teacher and school governors and lea, used to be the case[i think up to 3 years ago], but things have changed since then.

Age 9?
Really?

No more lying back and thinking of England

I'm truly sorry if that was your experience, Violetsky
And surprised too.

I don't believe you'd been born in the 1960s? I may be wrong of course.
So what went wrong in the years afterwards that everything regressed to Victorian values?

Actually, I don't remember that it did 🤔

There are people who have ulterior motives who are pushing this agenda.
I'm all in favour of answering questions as they come up, in an age-appropriate way, and definitely believe that children should be taught about their bodies and how they will develop, but I don't know why people aren't up in arms about things like drag queens reading stories, classes about anal sex and so on being taught to young children.

Has anyone explained why these things are useful for children to know? We hear about 'inclusivity', but not in what scenario it is likely that most children will include a drag queen in their lives. I'm not talking about pantomime, or about Uncle Richard liking to drag up on Saturday nights for the karaoke, or 'living as' a woman, but about men in full drag being amongst children in somewhere like a library or school. What other scenarios can people envisage where children are likely to be in the company of caricature women in full make-up and sexualised clothing? Are any of them healthy?

Similarly, in what context are 9 year old children likely to need to know about anal sex? When they are older, they may need to be taught about the possible dangers, and about consent and the right to say no if they are uncomfortable with the idea, but at 9 surely it is better to teach about sex in a much less 'specific' manner?

What I like about sex education now is that it is very focused on consent and making sure it's understood what is enjoyable.

In order that children learn enough so that they can't be taken advantage of, they need to know all the information and they need to know it should be comfortable and enjoyable not painful or scary

No more lying back and thinking of England

There is a great deal of pressure on young children these days - like it or not, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle in that respect. You can't simply turn a blind eye and pretend it isn't happening - because it is, and we need to equip them with the skills to deal with it in an appropriate fashion.

Just to follow up on that - its something young children experiment with at various ages (try watching under 5's touch themselves and having to teach them its something "private")

Possibly its then mentioned as being normal, which is different altogether.

Whilst reminding myself that we may not have the entire story as we're relying on the good old mass media again, if even the bare bones of what is being communicated to these 9 year-olds is being accurately reported, IMO it's way out of order for children of that age.

I honestly believe that the sex education of children in schools should restrict itself to describing the reproductive act, along with some birth control education, whilst emphasising that sex should not be a casual affair.

There's so much of the more sordid stuff out there these days that the days of sitting kids down and telling them about the birds and the bees are now a distant, historic memory. Childhood innocence no longer exists as we knew it.
Nevertheless, if my child had been exposed to graphic stuff like that at school at that age I would have been horrified.

As for children "having a healthier attitude towards sex these days", oh really? I don't think that either the NSPCC or those professionally involved in child psychiatry would agree. Too many readily accessible and horrendously harmful role models available on line at the touch of a button, constantly pushing the boundaries as to what is "normal" behaviour. So much more negative pressure on young children these days, in so many ways.

Smileless2012

"given masturbation for homework" .

Frankly I don't believe that.

Sounds like something mentioned that then got twisted on reporting.

grandtanteJE65

Without knowing the details of the teaching materials used, no one of us can judge whether the father in question acted reasonably or unreasonably.

I know of one class of six year olds who were told about periods, involuntary ejaculation and given far too graphic descriptions of childbirth, plus warnings not to allow anyone to touch their genitals, which resulted, not incomprehensibly of scared children stating they never wanted to marry or have children and not allowing their mothers to wash them or supervise their washing themselves.

So if the child in question had been told the same, I understand her father completely.

If on the other hand he equates chastity with ignorance then he is barking up the wrong tree. There is nothing wrong with those of us who feel that sex before marriage is wrong bringing our children up to know that that is what we feel, but ignorance of the physical facts is not and can never be a good thing.

But we do know the details!

Read the article

Without knowing the details of the teaching materials used, no one of us can judge whether the father in question acted reasonably or unreasonably.

I know of one class of six year olds who were told about periods, involuntary ejaculation and given far too graphic descriptions of childbirth, plus warnings not to allow anyone to touch their genitals, which resulted, not incomprehensibly of scared children stating they never wanted to marry or have children and not allowing their mothers to wash them or supervise their washing themselves.

So if the child in question had been told the same, I understand her father completely.

If on the other hand he equates chastity with ignorance then he is barking up the wrong tree. There is nothing wrong with those of us who feel that sex before marriage is wrong bringing our children up to know that that is what we feel, but ignorance of the physical facts is not and can never be a good thing.

Keeper1

I believe it wasn’t just teaching about their bodies and contraception. They were being taught about anal sex and given masturbation for homework

If that's the case parents should be demanding at the highest levels, why this is on the curriculum for Y4.

They should also be asking who, at the BBC, is responsible for these BBC Bitesize programmes and videos and what their own motives are.

"given masturbation for homework" .

I wouldn’t do what this father has done - gone to the papers. However someone in my family has withdrawn their 8yo child from these classes because of distress at what they were being told. The parents asked to see the materials being taught and it was handed over immediately. They decided it was inappropriate for their child just now and withdrew them from class.

There was no pushback at all from the school and indeed they got the impression that the head agreed that they were doing the right thing for their child.

Well, if you think that article was shocking then just look at this one. Keep scrolling down if you have a strong stomach. It may be the Daily Mail but they haven't made up those teaching resources, they do actually exist.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12189041/Twelve-year-olds-taught-anal-sex-school-nine-year-olds-told-masturbate.html
Children should not be focusing their minds on all this sexual content, in many cases things they do not need to know until they are 16 and of legal age to have sex. Nine year olds shouldn't be walking around thinking about sexual activity. They are going to think this is something they can do with each other. Things that would never have entered their heads if they weren't being shown what to do.

I believe it wasn’t just teaching about their bodies and contraception. They were being taught about anal sex and given masturbation for homework

IMO it's a good thing this father went to the media about this. I wonder how many parents aren't aware of what their children are being taught in these lessons.

They are now.

No paddyann, being a Christian doesn't mean that your children shouldn't have sex education. This is a C of E Academy which maybe why this father sent his D there.

The school's ethos is "In God's hands we are truthful, we persevere and we aspire that all that you do be done in love". The school is described as a friendly village school with a strong Christian ethos, with an Ofsted rating of good.

I can't imagine why any school would consider this content suitable for children aged 9.

The right place to take it up is with the school governors/parents and the LEA.

That used to be the case.