Compulsory Maths till you’re 18.

It would depend what it meant. If it meant resitting GCSE until you pass, then yes, I’d be ok with that, as level 2 is very basic; but insisting everyone takes A level maths seems more than a little pointless. Also, would there be similar requirements to study English? I would apply the same thinking to that, if so. Everyone should be at least at level 2 before leaving school, but there is a big gap to get to A level. There has to be more nuance than that I think.

Having said that, I don’t have an O level in maths, and I have 3 degrees, two of which are postgraduate, one of those requiring the use of statistics in the dissertation. It’s by no means essential.

I would have simply refused to do it.
I refused to do PE in the last year of school, so I do have form!

I have dyscalculia.
It took all my of efforts (and that if my parents and my wonderful maths teacher, who also privately tutored me) to scrape a C in my second attempt.

I was academically bright in other areas, so it probably would have caused huge problems for my HE and FE.

I wonder how maths teachers feel about having a class full of reluctant, stroppy (and, as would have been in my case - totally incapable) 17 and 18 year old students?

The whole thing is a ridiculous nightmare.
It’s a good job that it won’t actually happen! 😃

I was very ill in my early teens and missed out on a chunk of schooling. I never caught up with maths so might have taken up the opportunity to carry on. I suppose as I had left school and gone to art school that would have been at evening classes.

I did it until I was 18 ,mainly because ,at that time, you didn’t have to do a lot of revision and it was a fairly easy ride. I had no intention of continuing with it at uni. I wasn’t the best at it but I did well in my exams. I also had a good coach, my future husband who at that time was doing a PhD in engineering. A lot depends on how it is taught and unfortunately those who follow maths as a study are not likely to end up as teachers these days because they can earn so much in other fields.

The way things are, a much better plan would be to put the kids on a St John’s Ambulance course

Or perhaps we could bring back National Service; but instead of it being in the military, it would be NHS based

By all means make sure that we all have basic numeracy, but they’re is no need for advanced maths for the vast majority of us. Those that enter a career than needs advanced calculation, electronics, engineering, medicine need the extra training but even they do not use calculation often, they push a button on a computer.

FannyCornforth

The way things are, a much better plan would be to put the kids on a St John’s Ambulance course

Yes indeed!

I think Sunak is talking about a bacalaureat style exam with fewer subjects at GCSE and English and Maths continued until 18. I don't disagree with that, but there is a desperate shortage of Maths teachers and there are certainly not the resources for wholesale curriculum change.

Maths teachers are so thin on the ground these days that they wouldn’t have the staff to teach it, Could get the PE teachers to do it like they are doing currently I suppose.

Yes, vegansrock, I’d forgotten about that.
At my last secondary school, it was the job of the Business Studies lot

Failed o level maths twice . Finally with a tutor got through while happily doing 3 A levels. It doesn’t work for everyone not sure what he means, if you’re doing other a levels you must do a level maths ( absolute no no for me) or just some maths ?

Sounds like one of those “I must come up with something new” things.

The government needs to stop interfering with the curriculum in schools and sort out their own calculations for our economy!

FannyCornforth

I would have simply refused to do it.
I refused to do PE in the last year of school, so I do have form!

I have dyscalculia.
It took all my of efforts (and that if my parents and my wonderful maths teacher, who also privately tutored me) to scrape a C in my second attempt.

I was academically bright in other areas, so it probably would have caused huge problems for my HE and FE.

I wonder how maths teachers feel about having a class full of reluctant, stroppy (and, as would have been in my case - totally incapable) 17 and 18 year old students?

The whole thing is a ridiculous nightmare.
It’s a good job that it won’t actually happen! 😃

I could have written this!

I am not sure our experiences at school are relevant really. The maths teaching at my (independent) school was dire. It would not have survived Ofsted.
My GDs in the UK have been throughstate secondary schools. The maths teaching has been very good overall, but it is clear that there is now a national shortage.
I think a debate about a change to a bacalaureat system would be good and welcomed by schools. My GDs did the middle years bacalaureat at their school and there was some excellent content.
Implementation would need long-term planning and resourcing, not a political soundbite.

vegansrock

Maths teachers are so thin on the ground these days that they wouldn’t have the staff to teach it, Could get the PE teachers to do it like they are doing currently I suppose.

My nephew is head of PE and a competent maths teacher. In fact, he’s one of the most inspiring teachers and a great human being.

ronib I’m pretty certain that vr was not having a pop at PE teachers, in the same way that I wasn’t having a pop at Business Studies teachers

Well he will only need the fingers of one hand to count the number of seats the Tories will have after the next general election.

FannyCornforth

ronib I’m pretty certain that vr was not having a pop at PE teachers, in the same way that I wasn’t having a pop at Business Studies teachers

Well just for the record, said nephew won Teacher of the Year award !

Marvellous ronib
But I still don’t think that teachers should be required (or expected) to teach outside their subject area.
I know that I didn’t like it when I was required to.
And however fabulous your nephew is, I’d prefer a maths teacher to be teaching my child maths rather than one qualified to teach PE

That is great, Ronib, and is evidence of his skill in teaching, as well as in PE and maths, but it doesn't mean that maths could be taught by just anyone at all, any more than that PE could be taught well by someone with several maths degrees and with training in how to teach maths effectively. They might be unable to throw a ball straight, because it wasn't necessary for their principal studies.

Maths was always my worst subject. I may as well have given up on it when about 14 for all the good it did me.

I failed my maths o level, but still managed to competently hold down a job in a bank for my whole working life.

We do still have problems with basic skills in the UK.
Amongst other things, I taught numeracy to level 2 - just part of Key Skills, at a practical working knowledge level. It's already a requirement of many FE courses, a core part of apprenticeships etc.

Still, we don't need any more compulsory anything - as it just limits choice, excludes people from courses, presents barriers. Compulsory to 18? No!

My daughter in law is also a teacher at secondary level and she’s perfectly happy to switch subjects. Her first degree is in Ancient Greek and Latin and she is flexible.
My nephew has A level maths and is more than able to teach GCSE mathematics.
My most expensively educated son had less than satisfactory maths teaching at A level and so it goes on….