No longer a Vegan after 11 years

I’m neither vegan nor veggie but do try to eat as little meat as possible. But I was very upset to read about Bobby calves on Facebook last night. I’m trying to find out if our increased trade with Australia means we shall be trading with a country where cattle are treated far worse than this country or if we’re as bad. Apologies if this has been mentioned on the thread….I’m popping in and out and haven’t read all of it.

How do you know someone isn’t a vegan? Don’t worry they’ll tell you. Then proceed to tell you everything that’s wrong with a vegan diet.

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That's true GeorgesGran. All my household cleaning things are vegan, as are my shampoo, soap, toothpaste etc. I own no leather or animal sourced clothing/bags/stuff.

If you eat a vegan diet but still use non-vegan things then strictly speaking you follow a plant based diet.

Bluebells I have a friend who lectures me, and others, on what we should and shouldn't eat. She is very hectoring about it and has lost friends due to this. I ignore her when she starts now as she's a kind friend otherwise.

Why do people have to try and change others
Eat what you like eating
I havent eaten meat for a good few years simply because I realised i wasn’t that into it i hadn’t eaten anything other than chicken and a bit of turkey at christmas for probably 20 years and then wondered why I was even bothering with the poor old chicks I can’t really say I miss it
Then about 2 years ago I watched seaspiracy and went completely off fish I don’t think many would watch that and still enjoy their fish
I do eat dairy products and plenty of veg however I know I have a far from ideal diet as I have always liked carbohydrates
But whilst I don’t have any problems and don’t put weight on
I ll carry on as I am
All my friends are meat/ fish eaters and I would never try and persuade anyone to do anything different
Each to their own

I liked the notion of being Vegan, organic, and healthy. But how can you be nutritionally adequate if you don't consume meat, eggs, or milk? I appreciate the concept, but I don't believe it's for me.

I have been a vegetarian for four years now and feel much healthier for it, so it works for me...I am not trying to save the planet just want to feel healthier, which I am.

I wholly agree MOnica when you write As you say becoming a vegan is a personal choice and thus it should stay, leaving other people to make their own 'ethical' decisions on what foods they choose to eat, without being castigated by those who consider their choices are morally superior
My dd has been vegetarian since she was 8 (34 years), she eats eggs and cheese.
DS and DDIL decided to become vegan a few years ago but are now largely vegetarian and eat fish and eggs, the DGCs are omnivores. The reason for leaving being vegan was the amount of time needed to prepare meals and the high reliance on tofu etc. as well as carbon footprint concerns for many vegan foodstuffs.
It’s very much an individual decision, I am omnivore but we’re eating less meat and more sustainably obtained fish.

As someone who follows the same principles as M0nica and doesn't often post when she has as she is so much more eloquent than wot I am, I just want to add that I agree wholeheartedly with what she and Mollygo have just said.

And add that I have a severe garlic intolerance (that's an intolerance not allergy), and eating out is becoming difficult at the best of times and impossible when meeting my vegetarian daughter at her favourite restaurant. What is it with vegans/vegetarians and garlic?

*Beautybumble, I have no criticism of vegans or veganism. In a world full of so many foodstuffs, all of us have a relatively (compared with every food available) limited palate of foodstuffs we eat). Many people have reasons why they eat the way they do, that include vegans, vegetarians, those with allergies, those with environmental concerns.

What I dislike is being preached at by those who think they live on some higher moral plane to ordinary mortals and what they eat proves it. Sadly many vegans fall into this group. It is real pleasure to find a vegan on GN, who doesn't (you)

Beautybumble I’m glad it works for you. Many people are cutting down on meat and are more aware of what they eat. Many people are doing their bit for the planet without becoming vegan.
It’s only when omnivores are accused of ruining the planet that it gets offensive. That sort of proselytising just annoys others, especially those who have investigated being vegan and found reasons why they don’t like it or can’t do it for health reasons.
Enjoy your health.

I'm nearly 72. I had a full medical checkup which of course included a full blood test. My doctor said he couldn't believe that the results before him were from someone of 71, he first thought that they were for someone much younger. My hair hasn't gone grey, in fact its still a really nice auburn. I take no meds at all and I feel great. I'm a vegan. I've heard lots of critical comments about vegans and been laughed at too, but this stuff works well for me and I will stick with it. I've read a lot about the subject and listen to several talks made by people I decided I trust. I eat whole foods mostly and occasionally will buy a little processed vegan food. This lifestyle changed my life for the better. I don't preach about it or look down at anyone who chooses to eat differently from me. We do not need meat to save our environment. I just thought I'd let you hear from someone that has benefited greatly from eating a wholefoods plant based diet because it is amazing. I only wanted to put in a positive word for vegans as so many people know so little about it. I hope this doesn't offend.

vegansrock

MOnica *nowhere have I said everyone should be vegan, it’s a personal,choice. I would certainly like in an ideal world, to see people eat far less meat and dairy, and to see an an end to industrialised meat production, animal exploitation and destruction of wildlife to enable it. Those with extreme allergic reactions have to make their choices, but they do not represent everyone, indeed there is some evidence that the rise in allergies is party due to western lifestyles and refined diets which is over heavy on meat and dairy.

Absolutely agree.

MOnica *nowhere have I said everyone should be vegan, it’s a personal,choice. I would certainly like in an ideal world, to see people eat far less meat and dairy, and to see an an end to industrialised meat production, animal exploitation and destruction of wildlife to enable it. Those with extreme allergic reactions have to make their choices, but they do not represent everyone, indeed there is some evidence that the rise in allergies is party due to western lifestyles and refined diets which is over heavy on meat and dairy.

FODMAP diets are helpful for people with food intolerances, The effects of a food intolerance are usually limited to the digestive system, but food allergies are something very different.

A food allergy is an immune reaction that can affect numerous organs in the body and cause something called anaphylactic shock that can and does kill people. People with severe allergies carry an epipen with them all the time, so that if they do have an allergic reaction, they can immediately give themselves an injection of adrenalin while they seek urgent medical help.

My DiL's allergies started after she was diagnosed with an auto immune illness and her soya allergy is severe enough for her to go nowhere without her epipen.

DGD is growing out of her allergies, but we once had to rush her to A&E after she touched a tomato, that was all, just touched it. Her face swelled up and we were concerned about her breathing.

But Vegansrock, you would like everybody to be vegan, so the problem of how people with severe allergies would manage on a vegan diet is a real problem that needs to be addressed.

I am well aware that someone like my DiL, who has these allergies could follow a vegan diet, but it would be dull and limited because such a wide range of vegan food stuffs could not be consumed. Remember many plant milks are based on soya or nuts,

As things are because she can eat meat and dairy, she can avoid her allergens, but soya gets everywhere. The main emulsifier used in chocolate, for example, is Lecithin, derived from soya. In France we can get some chocolate that has Lecithin derived from sunflowers, but, even there it is difficult to find.

As you say becoming a vegan is a personal choice and thus it should stay, leaving other people to make their own 'ethical' decisions on what foods they choose to eat, without being castigated by those who consider their choices are morally superior

MOnica “By the way, you still haven't answered my query on a vegan diet for someone allergic to soya, nuts and fresh fruit.”
I did answer this question some times ago, but can’t be ar*ed to trawl through to refer to it, but I am wondering how many of those allergic to soy, nuts and fruit wishing to follow a vegan diet there are. No one is forcing them to be vegan, it’s a personal choice, but they could always eat numerous beans, legumes grains such as quinoa, rice and couscous , and many different plant milks which are fortified , limitless vegetables. I could write menus if you’d like to ask them to get in touch.

The FODMAP diet can be very useful for some people, but it is not intended to be followed long-term and should be followed under the guidance of a qualified dietician.

You might be better trying the FODMAP diet. My niece does this and legumes aren't allowed. FODMAP stands for fermentable oligosaccharides, disaccharides, monosaccharides and polyols. There are tons of diet/cookbooks on Amazon (and other booksellers). I look at Amazon whenever I want a book (o anything) but then buy from WOB.com (formerly world of books) as they are sometimes cheaper and, if in the UK, its free postage.

vegansrock as with all things, it depends on the source of the meat you eat.

As James Rebank has shown, while methane emissions are a fact, The Pasture for Life movement, where cattle are grazed only on grassland and hay and sileage produced on farm, with no imported high density food supplements, where the animals trample dung into the soil leading to carbon sequestration daily.jstor.org/can-cows-help-mitigate-climate-change-yes-they-can/

Across this country and probably every country in the world there are huge swathes of marginal land, unsuitable for growing crops but have grazed cattle for thousands of years. These grazing areas have developed an ecology of their own with many plant and insect species that are found only on this type of habitat.

It obviously favours those opposed to meat eating to look to the most damaging, to animal and environment, cattle rearing methods, work out how damaging that is to the environment, and then extrapolate it to all cattle production, but over at least the last decade many farmers in many countries world wide have been reconsidering their cattle rearing systems and going back to pasture for life systems.

By the way, you still haven't answered my query on a vegan diet for someone allergic to soya, nuts and fresh fruit.

LPJI Please don’t instruct me to eat a “low meat diet”, I choose not to, and don’t need to. You can choose what you want to eat, Maybe you could investigate the carbon footprint of most meat eaten in terms of land, energy and water use.

Marmite is a by-product of the brewing industry, that is why it was in short supply during the first lockdown, because with beer production falling through the floor, there was no by-product to turn into marmite.

LJP1 that is an interesting claim about supplements. Omega3 apart, and the problems there are well known, I could find no verifiable evidence for your claim online. A few wishy washy assertions, but little else.

Marmite!

Supplements / fortifying chemicals are usually high carbon footprint! Just eat the low meat diet which we have spent millions of years adapting to!!

It’s easy to get enough B12 by using fortified plant milks such as Oatly on your cereals, eat marmite on toast, sprinkle yeast flakes on your pasta or taking a supplement. Plenty of people take various supplements if you look at all the shelves in the chemist.( not all of them vegans I would surmise). I have had several blood tests recently and am not anaemic or deficient in any vitamins.