Vaccine fatigue or the Brenda reaction

I agree WW. I shall continue to shout at the radio ( which for some unfathomable reason takes no notice at all ?)

suziewoozie

WW I think what I’m hesitating at is commentators equating the word booster with the annual flu jab. The annual flu jab is not a booster jab, is it? A booster jab increases a waning immunity. With the flu jab the constant evolution means the immunity hasn’t just waned, it’s not there. With Covid we don’t know enough yet do we? So I accept the possible Sept jab could be described as a booster but it might be more than that.
Why am I fretting about this? Hummm because language matters - booster has a specific meaning and we shouldn’t use it unless we mean it.

Tbh I think that the term booster jab is wrong anyway. It has yet to be established that anti-bodies present do in fact wane, but it is almost certainly the case, that just like flu some mutations will not be covered by the current vaccine.

The flu jab is for the latest mutation, and this is what I think will happen with the covid jab.

flax there is evidence on transmission after being vaccinated - the last figures I saw said that transmission was reduced by 70% which is good but doesn’t mean hugs all round.

We are over 70 and had our first vaccine at the GP practice and it was so well organized that we trust them and the NHS to do what they think is best. I also think we have some brilliant scientists in this country, even though they often seem to have different opinions. No one seems to know yet if you can transmit the virus to others even if you've had the vaccine. Definitely someone asymptomatic can transmit to others.

WW I think what I’m hesitating at is commentators equating the word booster with the annual flu jab. The annual flu jab is not a booster jab, is it? A booster jab increases a waning immunity. With the flu jab the constant evolution means the immunity hasn’t just waned, it’s not there. With Covid we don’t know enough yet do we? So I accept the possible Sept jab could be described as a booster but it might be more than that.
Why am I fretting about this? Hummm because language matters - booster has a specific meaning and we shouldn’t use it unless we mean it.

Alegrias
“As a scientist, I get a bit fraught when there are suggestions that these are "educated guesses". Forecasts based on data, try that.”
That’s reassuring Alegrias!

What is bugging me (forgive the pun) is not so much the thought of booster jabs being necessary, but the thought of having been vaccinated, yet still being subject to travel & other restrictions.
What I would like to see is firm evidence that once we’ve been vaccinated, we are not going to transmit the virus to others.
I’m not yearning to go to Spain or Portugal but I am yearning to see DS and family in the USA. As things stand, even if flights are allowed later in the year, we will have to pay for tests before boarding both in U.K. and the States, considerably adding to the cost.

suziewoozie

Thanks Alegrias that makes sense. What shouldn’t happen is describing it or likening it to the annual flu jab - not helpful. I do sometimes think that the ( understandable) political desire to see the vaccine as the solution to all our problems ( as opposed to a massive contribution) gets in the way of how messages are delivered.

Re -flu virus continuously mutated = annual flu jab for the vulnerable and anyone else who wishes to avoid flu.

Covid virus continuously mutated = frequent jab (annually?) necessary. Certainly for the vulnerable, antibodies monitored in population. To see the necessity for booster.

That is why it is like the flu jab

Both viruses, both mutate, both respiratory diseases. One at present more lethal than the other.

suziewoozie

Here you go - Brenda from Bristol

youtu.be/d3PKE8uTSp8

Ahhh. I remember that. Yes it’s very funny ??. Thanks.

There are I believe trials going on into a combined flu/covid vaccine - that would be great

I am sure Alegrias is right and we will need a modified version of the vaccine each year unless at some point the virus mutates into something less harmful. Hard luck on general practice.

BlueSky

Suzie and I took you seriously! I thought you meant BRENDA reaction!

???????

Thanks Alegrias that makes sense. What shouldn’t happen is describing it or likening it to the annual flu jab - not helpful. I do sometimes think that the ( understandable) political desire to see the vaccine as the solution to all our problems ( as opposed to a massive contribution) gets in the way of how messages are delivered.

Suzie and I took you seriously! I thought you meant BRENDA reaction!

Nobody knows yet how long the immunity conferred by the vaccine will last, because we haven't had the vaccine for more than a few months so we really just don't know. The Booster that is getting the publicity this morning is to boost immunity against new variants. I think "booster" is a good description as we still have some protection from new variants due to the original vaccines.

I expect that scientists are looking at the prevalence of antibodies in the community (well, I know they are) and will be watching the incidence of new cases to tell them if and when the immunity resulting from the original vaccine is starting to wane, then we might all need another vaccine injection that is effective against the latest, most prevalent variants.

As a scientist, I get a bit fraught when there are suggestions that these are "educated guesses". Forecasts based on data, try that.

Here you go - Brenda from Bristol

youtu.be/d3PKE8uTSp8

“Sloppy use of language” exactly Suzie it does bother me too, especially as I believe I’m borderline autistic. But as GrannyGravy said, at the moment it must be educated guesses.

Polarbear2

Errrr. What’s the Brenda reaction?? Sorry need education on that one ?‍♀️?

I though5 I was being really funny - you don’t remember Brenda? I’ll try and find the clip

Errrr. What’s the Brenda reaction?? Sorry need education on that one ?‍♀️?

I’m so muddled about this that I keep thinking I’m missing something obvious. I suppose the problem, as so often, is sloppy use of language. I don’t have a problem at all about trotting along for my ‘booster’ in September if advised but like many of us I’d like to understand the situation more.I do still worry about ‘vaccine gung-ho-ness’.

There’s a whole new vocabulary developing isn’t there?

Vaccine hesitancy
Vaccine fatigue
Vaccine gung-ho-ness

Oh all right , I made up the last two myself ( I think)

I think that the covid vaccine will be treated exactly like the flu vaccine.

The virus will continually mutate and the vaccine will be tweaked in the lab to counteract the mutation. A yearly jab will be a way of life I think just as the flu is.

What may happen is a yearly jab for the vulnerable and suck it and see for everyone else.

suziewoozie I am beginning to think that the medics/scientists are making educated guesses .

It’s only just coming up to 18 months since flipping Covid-19 was acknowledged/discovered. They are constantly finding new variants, and hopefully can tweak the vaccines along the way.

I am not in the category for the booster so far, I am definitely suffering from Covid fatigue one step forward and two steps back.

Good post suziewoozie I’ll be interested to know more about this and look forward to others coming to the discussion with their understanding.
I do hope the future is rosier as most of us are feeling the effects a whole year of terrible COVID-19 has left.
New variants are my main concern.

suziewoozie
“Some commentators are saying it’s like the annual flu jab but that’s not a booster jab is it? Am I right that we don’t have residual immunity to carry forward but that each years flu jab is formulated for the circulating strains expected? “
I believe that’ll be the case, formulated for strains expected. It’s unusual for you not to know something Suzie you usually explain things beautifully!