How should we deal with the groups who refuse to have the vaccine?

The person who died of Corona virus lived in a residential home which had been completely locked down to protect their elderly guests. She was the only corona virus patient in the home.

Panorama: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000scy8/panorama-vaccines-the-disinformation-war

Some very good advice from the Marsh family

youtu.be/ZnbOKH9Oe9s

Panorama on Monday this week was about the misinformation that has proliferated around the vaccine. They did an experiment with a group of doubters who came round to a much better understanding and the realisation that they had been brainwashed by the anti-vax ampaigners.
I imagine it is available on i-Player.

I know of a few people who contracted COVID a week after receiving the vaccine, one died. I’m not saying is because of receiving the vaccine but it’s all too uncertain
Betty that’s because immunity takes up to 3 weeks to develop after the vaccine has been given.
The question you should be asking is not why did they contract the virus after having the vaccine, but why they didn’t continue to keep themselves safe until they had developed immunity.
It’s more than probable that they transmitted the virus to other people too.

Take your husband's advice and have the jabBetty

Goodness it is reassuring to read all of theses comments. The vaccine is definitely not for me - it’s all too new and too vague. I know of a few people who contracted COVID a week after receiving the vaccine, one died. I’m not saying is because of receiving the vaccine but it’s all too uncertain. However my husband does not share my views and is going to get his vaccine. Yes he’s a grown man and can make his own decisions but I do worry

"COVID-19 disinformation has become the new frontline for far-right entryism. As the UK Government has stumbled from crisis to crisis, its mishandling of the pandemic response has stoked fear, anxiety and anger that has provided ample fuel for dangerous conspiracy theories to be widely disseminated – not by fringe voices, but by influencers with significant ties to the US and UK governments.

To be sure, as I have previously reported, draconian lockdowns have always been avoidable; catastrophic Government failures worsened both the first and second waves; and the best solutions to transition out of the crisis to near normal are being overlooked. Yet such failures, along with the devastating impact of both the pandemic and the lockdowns on ordinary citizens (especially the most vulnerable), have empowered fringe voices and speculative theories that have increasingly reached mainstream audiences.

One epicentre of this new disinformation nexus is British right-wing commentator Toby Young, who has become a top publisher of demonstrably false and scientifically illiterate COVID-19 misinformation. Yet Young was recently featured in the Financial Times for his COVID-19 publishing, and has ties to some of the most influential figures in British establishment conservatism across policy, media and parliament – raising questions about how fringe pseudo-science is attempting to influence public discourse through the prism of ‘free speech’."

bylinetimes.com/2020/12/04/alt-right-pseudoscience-part-1-lockdown-sceptics/

Alegrias1
“I'll just be rolling up my sleeve and taking whatever's offered. They're all better than what we had 3 months ago, which was nothing.”
Exactly Alegrias!

Alegrias I tried to say that I thought the staff in question might prefer P because the results thus far demonstrate a higher efficacy. That’s all. It would be interesting ( but imo wrong) to know if in general medical staff have a preference. I’m afraid as far as misinformation and rumour is concerned, that genie is well and truly out of the bottle. I’ve made comments elsewhere about my uncomplimentary views on much of what passes for ‘journalism’ (about everything) but in this specific case about the various vaccines.

I spend quite a bit of time in a chemotherapy daycare unit at the moment, as a patient, and am surprised at the number of nursing staff who have not been vaccinated. I have not felt it’s my place to ask why, but I know it has been offered to all staff.

Alegrias1. When I worked for the NHS I was one of the few staff members that had the swine flu vaccine. Having said that it didn’t include the doctors who all had it. I’m not sure about the nurses.

Suziewoozie
“What I do think is wrong is that the preferences of medical staff come into the public domain not that they have such preferences.”
Exactly Suzie.

It’s probably quicker to safeguard medical staff using the Pfizer vaccine as well if they are given (as they should be) the second dose after 3 weeks whereas the Oxford vaccine is more efficacious if a longer gap is given. We’re having our second dose after 11 weeks but I would ideally have wanted to wait for 12 + weeks.

There are other threads going on about how to have disagreements in a positive manner and others about scientists. So I'll be good

The drip, drip of half understood facts about vaccines must be contributing to the vaccine hesitancy we are seeing. So the fact that AZ didn't have a large cohort of over 55s in their trials becomes "it doesn't work for old people". The fact that the half dose/full dose regime was shown not to be truly effective becomes "AZ weren't allowed to go with that".

This is becoming so unbelievably complex that I don't think most of us can really have an informed opinion on whether one vaccine is "preferable" to any other. I'll just be rolling up my sleeve and taking whatever's offered. They're all better than what we had 3 months ago, which was nothing.

Where I might disagree with you suzie is on the idea that medical staff might have a better idea of which vaccine is the best. (I'm not sure that's actually what you've said, though, so I'm prepared to be proved wrong) Although I am full of respect for doctors, nurses and all the other health workers, they are not experts in vaccines and I'm not prepared to give their views any more credence than anybody else's.

May I think the results of that half dose ‘trial’ were not robust enough for general application .

BlueSky

Suzie That could be but now ordinary people feel the same. It’s already restricted to the under 55 and now younger people are objecting too. I thought the objections used to be about the Pfizer and ‘messing with the DNA’. Do we know which vaccine is given here to medical staff? In any case I’m very grateful for my Oxford AZ.

It’s not a question of our being grateful though is it? I was just making the point that based on the evidence thus far it seems very rational for a front line health worker to prefer P to AZ. I’ve no idea about medical staff here - my guess is that hospitals might be more likely to give P as they have the storage facilities. That would leave AZ for community facilities. What I do think is wrong is that the preferences of medical staff come into the public domain not that they have such preferences.

It’s a pity Astra Zeneca weren’t allowed to go with the half dose followed by a full dose regime which had higher efficacy. I’m still suspicious that the other drug companies aren’t happy with a non profit making vaccine that can be easily produced and wheeled out in every country in the world. I understand that people working in the front line want to have the best protection possible but that opinion shouldn’t be allowed to filter down to other people in remote areas that wouldn’t be able to have the Pfizer vaccine anyway because of it’s storage difficulties.

Suzie That could be but now ordinary people feel the same. It’s already restricted to the under 55 and now younger people are objecting too. I thought the objections used to be about the Pfizer and ‘messing with the DNA’. Do we know which vaccine is given here to medical staff? In any case I’m very grateful for my Oxford AZ.

suziewoozie

Jane is today’s news what you’ve been waiting for-will it solve the problem?

I hope so. I checked with the medical centre that she was registered, which she was, but they said they had no control over who is offered the vaccine. Then I watched the news and it seemed to be suggesting that the new guidance was aimed at people with type 2 diabetes. I am hoping common sense prevails. With the JCVI guidance and green paper my daughter actually falls into group 4 not group 6. I appreciate we aren't special in any way and other people want and need the vaccine, my own fear is that medical professionals find her difficult to cope with/look after even when I am there with her, I don't want to be put in a situation where she requires hospital treatment and they either will not admit her or they take her in and can't cope with her (and I am not sure how we would cope with that either) tbh I thought the NHS would be trying to avoid this kind of scenario as well.

BlueSky

Did you hear that in Italy medical personnel are refusing the Oxford AZ as ‘second class vaccine’ and requesting the Pfizer for themselves? Very damaging for the ordinary people who might now want the same. It was on the news last night but I’d already read about it in the press.

Well they’re not wrong are they?They are front line workers and on the data available Pfizer has higher efficacy than AZ. I hope they get their second dose within 3-4 weeks as well.

Did you hear that in Italy medical personnel are refusing the Oxford AZ as ‘second class vaccine’ and requesting the Pfizer for themselves? Very damaging for the ordinary people who might now want the same. It was on the news last night but I’d already read about it in the press.

Jane is today’s news what you’ve been waiting for-will it solve the problem?

I receive Patient Newsletter through my GP's surgery; this link is from the latest and I thought it may interest you:

patient.info/news-and-features/how-to-find-reliable-health-information-online

varian

It should matter to all of us, whether or not we have disabled children.

thank you