Treatment of prisoners during lockdown

It's nonsense to say that wanting a more effective criminal justice system means we don't care about victims.

Our towns Sure Start centre closed this week because of lack of funding. It used to be funded by the local authority but austerity put paid to that, so it became a charity. Lockdown is ensuring many charities go under. The reference to Sure Start is because it was one of the initiatives of the Blair government. It was research based. Putting money into supporting children in their early years saves a fortune later in their lives. Less crime, less substance misuse, less violence. Look to the other Northern European countries who invest in their children and families.

Well done Luckygirl for raising a difficult subject. We too, like many others, have been burgled and just felt an overriding sense of sadness for the young man who was found guilty. He was on his way to a life of crime, most likely, and, after the initial shock and upset, we claimed from home insurance and got on with life. I'm not trying to trivialise burglary at all, but the current situation is being accepted without any imagination in institutions. I have to say my extremely elderly relative in a care home is being treated in much the same way, albeit by sympathetic and kind staff, but is spending all day every day in isolation in their room because part of the home has been affected by Covid 19, and no doubt thinks family has deserted them. Why can't there be an appointment system where a family member can sit with them in the garden? In prison, small groups could occupy the usual social spaces in rota. You are right Luckygirl until we try to ensure that every person has value, and treat all our citizens with some compassion, then society is failing.

* Justwokeup*

" I have to say my extremely elderly relative in a care home is being treated in much the same way, albeit by sympathetic and kind staff, but is spending all day every day in isolation in their room ".................

I've worked in care homes, and I feel sure that prisoners get better meals than elderly people in care homes too

One of the things my job has taught me is that everyone has their story and often you have no idea what that is. Every human being was once someone’s chubby little toddler with the world in front of them.
I have been in many prisons and they are definitely not ‘soft’. On the contrary they are utterly terrifying places. Most of the young men In them are scared and lonely, themselves childhood victims of domestic violence and abuse. Of course this does not excuse their crimes but it does help to explain them.
Having compassion for prisoners does not make me any less compassionate for their victims but I would rather attempt to make the world a better place by trying to find out and eradicate the causes of criminal behaviour rather than just locking them away and forgetting about rehabilitation.

My parents bought me up to to ‘ judge not, lest ye be judged’. We have all done things that are wrong and there but for the grace of God go I.

I came back once from a lovely family holiday to find my home boarded up as we had been burgled. We had lost my engagement ring, a family ring and a microwave. I felt sorry for the burglar and prayed for him. Nothing could take away the lovely high I felt after a great holiday in Devon. It turned out to be a 15 year old who admitted it several months later. I recovered from my loss rapidly but for him life was no doubt going to be difficult for a long time .

MCW1 Unless the cooks in the carehomes you worked in were in the habit of spitting or putting semen or glass in the residents food I very much doubt that the food was worse.

dizzyblonde Of course they didn't! What a revolting idea. The portions were tiny. For tea, one slice of toast with ONE tomato from a tin, was hardly worth the £900 per WEEK's cost.

That’s what happens in prisons everyday.

Totally support your comments, Luckygirl, and others that have backed you. Prison policy is set by politicians who pander to popular prejudice. It serves neither us nor the prisoners in many cases.

I have thought long and hard about your post Luckygirl and have come to conclusion that there are some crimes that I couldn't care less how they are treated, in fact a few I have thought just throw away the key. But the problem is they will not be in prison for ever so what do we do, if we don't help them in someway they will just come even more twisted and bitter.
I would just like to tell you about the Women's Prison in Chiang Man, Thailand. The women here are all taught a trade while they are inside and paid a small amount for the doing it. The money is banked so that when they leave they have a small nest egg which is usually used to set them in the trade they were taught. The have a cafe, which I frequently used, they had beauty shops for massage and nails and they also grew all the veg that was needed for the prison. 100% of the prisoners never reoffended, thus saving money. Whycan't we do something similar? (once again can't find my glasses so typing without them. please excuse any errors)

Reading this thread has reminded me of someone I have known for many years---not as a close family friend but certainly more than an acquaintance.

A seemingly very respectable person, having held positions of responsibility within the community . Then, in his early 70's he was found guilty of fraud. The total amount of money he fraudulently obtained is unclear, but he was found guilty and given a custodial sentence.

He committed a crime, he deserved to be found guilty, he deserved to be punished, but I am not sure that the punishment fitted the crime.

Parents who ill treat, abuse and neglect their children are either given a slap on the wrist, a community order or perhaps a couple of months in prison---much less than he was given.
I do wonder how he is coping in prison

My son's friends who is a prison officer told him the inmates were preferring bring only allowed out of their cells for an hour's exercise during lockdown. They weren't under pressure to act tough amongst their fellow prisoners and be watching their backs constantly, generally we're much calmer.
Personally I find it questionable but that was what he reported. I would have thought eventually they would go stir crazy.

A friend was governor of a prison in the north east. Prisoners are allowed to leave each day to go to work. The number of prisoners who fail to return is minimal. Men who serve sentences there have better outcomes than those in less liberal regimes.

Women are disproportionately sentenced, eg for shop lifting. It's usually associated with substance misuse and/or stealing food for the family. I don't claim its a victimless crime, or that punishment shouldn't follow but prison sentences would be better used protecting society from violent offenders, especially those who sexually exploit children.

9pins, I wonder if 'calmer' simply means less troublesome - not necessarily actual calmness felt by the prisoners.
It may well be true, tho, that some feel under less pressure in that situation.

dizzyblonde I doubt that very much, but I can't be arsed to get into any further debate with you

Who is MadCatWoman1?
A familiar posting style, intended to provoke.

Iam64 I don't set out to provoke anyone, but if I've rattled anyone's cage, I'm not in the slightest bit bothered

Sorry MCW but visiting prisons in my job probably gives me a better knowledge of what goes on then some people. It’s not a debate it’s fact.

Well for whats its worth I agree with you dizzy blonde and you have given a good post.

One thing that is clear is that in the main the bulk of the population have no idea what is happening inside our prisons. This has recently changed for me and I am totally shocked. It is without doubt a broken system; and the services to prevent vulnerable people being sucked into crime has fallen apart.

This is a serious problem for us all.

I worked with young prisoners and I felt sorry for them. Its as dizzyblonde says.

The only people who describe our prisons as easy or holiday camps, are people who know nothing about them.

^There is no conflict between having sympathy for victims and wanting to see reform of the public services that might be able to help those whose backgrounds lead them to crime.

Hopefully the one will lead to a reduction in the number of victims - something that benefits us all^

This sums up what I have tried to say, but more eloquently. As for madcatwoman, you are posting provocative nonsense and contributing nothing to this serious discussion.

Apologies for lack of italics on my previous post, I copied and pasted. The quotation was from luckygirl.

grandtanteJE65 - I absolutely agree that the prison system needs reforming - but I also think that we need to look at how we stop people finishing up there in the first place. Dysfunctional families and those with mental health problems that make them vulnerable to exploitation by criminals re unsupported. There needs to be systems in place to support the children of dysfunctional families - those systems did exist but no longer do - a very short-sighted policy.