london

I’m absolutely sick of the whole business. I can’t be bothered to offer an opinion or argue with any of you. I’m just sick of it all. It causes other problems and difficulties that are nothing to do with Covid. I’m had enough of it all.

Oh Maddyone I do so agree.

A close friends daughter works as a physiotherapist on the COVID wards in London. This was the first Christmas she has had off in three years to be able to go home and spend it with family. She was due to travel home today but managed to get on a train home last night for a much needed break otherwise she would have been alone in her flat over Christmas. She is mentally and physically exhausted.

Sensible post Woodmouse, a bit of perspective. The media love to agitate.

essential travel has been allowed since the first lockdown SD if your friends son is in Scotland he can go back to his mums ,Its exceptional circumstances.I dont know what the rule is down south but here its fine.Really they just expect us to use common sense .
My OH will be collecting his mother and bringing her 40 miles to us.She has been on her own for most of the year and a recent hospital stay ,so she's coming here for a week .We have been very careful because of OH's heart issues so she'll be as safe here as at home .

My son lives and works in London - a key worker, so working right up until Christmas Eve. The plan was for my husband to drive down to London to pick him up after he finished work on Christmas Eve, and return him on Boxing Day ready for work the following day.

Those plans are gone now, of course.

And what makes me sadder than ever is that his flatmate left for Holland this morning. He caught the last plane out before Holland led the charge to ban travel from the UK. So my son will now be on his own.

I know we're no worse off than countless other families who are facing the prospect of loved ones being alone, and having only seen him once since last Christmas, but I am so sad about this. I know he's an adult and yes, we can Facetime, but we all know that it's no substitute.

I think it makes it worse because he's the only one of our family who won't be here. My other son lives with us, and we are the support and childcare bubble for my daughter and granddaughter, so they will also be able to be with us.

Both that son, and my daughter, have birthdays in January, so we will keep everything crossed that we can get together to celebrate both occasions in one.

My friend is in England, Paddyanne but thanks anyway. I hope your MIL enjoys her Christmas.

paddyanne I hope you have a wonderful Christmas with your MiL, and I hope she enjoys every minute with you. My mother was hospitalised after a fall, and has contracted Covid at the hospital. This after we kept her safe all these months. Luckily she doesn’t seem to be too ill, although she is very weak. She is 93 years old, and all alone in hospital. No visitors obviously. I haven’t words to say how I feel about it.

GardenerGran of course your friend’s daughter must be at home with her family at Christmas. How anyone can call her behaviour selfish is beyond me. Some people only think of themselves. This young woman has worked all year on the Covid wards. I understand why she is exhausted, my daughter and son in law are medics and are similarly exhausted. My mother is having support and treatment from the physiotherapists at the hospital where she is at the moment. Physiotherapy has a vital role in the treatment of Covid patients.

We are in Tier 4. Tomorrow we will take care of our three grandchildren, who are in a childcare bubble with us, for eleven hours whilst their parents are working, as they are key workers. On Tuesday we will care for them again for a further eleven hours.

However on Christmas Day we are not allowed to see them! Tier 4 rules!

maddyone

We are in Tier 4. Tomorrow we will take care of our three grandchildren, who are in a childcare bubble with us, for eleven hours whilst their parents are working, as they are key workers. On Tuesday we will care for them again for a further eleven hours.

However on Christmas Day we are not allowed to see them! Tier 4 rules!

On tier 4 childcare bubble rules, the government site says: 'Parents are able to form a childcare bubble with one other household for the purposes of informal childcare, where the child is 13 or under.

So you can see them on Christmas Day, if their parents are working.

However, you can't see them with their parents on Christmas day because you are no longer doing childcare.

Many the families are in the same position.

maddyone I really feel for you. I am in awe at how nurses and doctors have coped throughout this crisis. Their job is stressful at the best of times but this last year must have taken such a toll on their mental health and there is a long long way to go yet.
This sort of situation also takes its toll on the whole family, the children and grandparents too. Your daughter and son in law are so lucky to have you, and this is where we as grandparents have to hold things together. (I have done it myself). Then to be in tier 4 just about breaks you. It's no good others saying to someone, "many families are in this position." Across the country many, many parents are at least working from home, even teachers are off this week. In tier 4 shop assistants, hospitality workers hairdressers etc are all at home.
I can understand why maddyone, feels aggrieved and upset. I felt I just had to answer her on this thread even though she won't see the comment today because she is busy with her grandchildren.

However on Christmas Day we are not allowed to see them! Tier 4 rules!
maddyone if this is what you want to do, then that is part of your childcare bubble duties. I expect your DD and SIL might be spending half of Christmas Day nodding off, they must be exhausted, so you will be needed to look after your grandchildren.

Callistemon

^However on Christmas Day we are not allowed to see them! Tier 4 rules!^
maddyone if this is what you want to do, then that is part of your childcare bubble duties. I expect your DD and SIL might be spending half of Christmas Day nodding off, they must be exhausted, so you will be needed to look after your grandchildren.

Another voice of reason**Callistemon*. I fully agree, bend the rules for those exhausted parents.

I cannot see what difference between looking after the grandchildren for 11 hours on Tuesday which is allowed and seeing them for perhaps 5 hours on Friday which is not.

Rules are made for the good of us all, this particular one included, but in the case of those who have formed a childcare bubble, it seems illogical.

I totally agree with Callistemon. When the parents are in their house, they could be in one room relaxing and watching TV while the children are "helping" prepare the food or whatever. Common sense has to be applied and no rules are being broken. The parents will be more rested and hopefully relaxed with that arrangement.

It's all to do with limiting the adults mixing I think. But that's barmy, because if the grandparents have been in the kids' home all along they will inevitably have been touching stuff the parents handle and breathing in their air anyway.

It is very obvious that the latest lockdown rules and Tier 4 restrictions won't work because so many people are openly admitting they are going to break the rules, and actively advising other people to do so; they of course, are 'special cases'.
It also explains why previous measures have not worked as effectively as they should, because again people justify, to themselves, reasons for not observing them.

eazybee

It is very obvious that the latest lockdown rules and Tier 4 restrictions won't work because so many people are openly admitting they are going to break the rules, and actively advising other people to do so; they of course, are 'special cases'.
It also explains why previous measures have not worked as effectively as they should, because again people justify, to themselves, reasons for not observing them.

I am the same as you eazybee but there are a few who will bend the rules for this one day! Then what happens is others think: "well if he/she can do it, I will".

My niece's three boys are looked after by my brother and sister-in-law during the schools holidays except half terms (which parents take as holidays). The boys stay with them. They'd planned to usual to all stay over the Christmas period. This is now cancelled. So my brother will not see his daughter and family till goodness knows when. The childcare bubble does not exist when parents are there to care for their children.

So to those encouraging others to break and bend the rules, go ahead. Just don't go up in arms when others, you can't sympathise with do it, eg Cummings. It's one rule for us all

This variant is considered to be 70% more contagious. My voice of reason tells me, everyone needs to stick with and abide by the rules.

Gov.Uk is quite clear about this. People will still be able to form support bubbles – even under tier 4 restrictions – if they are at particular risk of loneliness or isolation. If anything contrary is done to this then rules are being broken.

Ellianne

It's all to do with limiting the adults mixing I think. But that's barmy, because if the grandparents have been in the kids' home all along they will inevitably have been touching stuff the parents handle and breathing in their air anyway.

You seem to have missed the point.

The grandparents will be travelling to a house in Tier 4. I'm also presuming that the parents live in Tier 4. Or perhaps the other way round. It's usually the case with childcare, the children are at the grandparents house. The possible contagious virus could come with these parents who work.
So yes, you're right in saying it is to do with limiting adults mixing and that is precisely what is not happening in this instance.

It is the people who have deliberately flouted the rules about not leaving tier 4 who concern me, attempting to escape the virus as though it is a tidal wave.
They are very likely bringing the virus, a rapid spreader, with them, spreading it on trains and planes, and I am sure Penzance, in tier 1, will be thrilled. Presumably these families will self-isolate for fourteen days?

eazybee, people are, in general, incredibly selfish (and self indulgent).

Many will do exactly what they want, when they want, by bending the rules - or inventing 'reasons' why they're an exception, a special case.

So many seem to think that rules are just for other people!

eazybee a lot of the people leaving London are workers, as I said before.my son included. In the west country, Devon and Cornwall, we welcome our family members home.

The virus is already spreading. We learned today that it has spread from South Wales to North Wales. The virus has had time to move up the country so blaming those leaving London is not fair. Many are people as others have said who work there and I am sure many have been travelling round the country over the last few weeks

My sister in law lives in East Sussex in tier 4 with her DH.

They have a lot of adult children and grandchildren, all are congregating in East Sussex having travelled far and wide- mainly from different parts of London. In my opinion, sheer madness. At this rate, if still alive I will be in the same position this time next year, on my own following the rules.

The virus is already spreading. We learned today that it has spread from South Wales to North Wales.

I find that odd, though. Wales may be one country but travelling between South and North Wales is not that easy - well certainly not as easy as, eg, between S Wales and the M4 corridor or between N Wales and the North-West, which are within commuting distance.