Programme on ADHD this evening

Mamie

I would say the child is back on medication because it makes it easier for him to learn.

There is of course the important question about what and how children learn.
They are all subject to the narrow curriculum and aims of our current system.
Does learning this take precedence over a child's well-being? Does it justify medicating a child?
Would it be legitimate to also ask whether the school system might also be a factor? The idea that the meds make it possible for him to learn presupposes that what and how he is being asked to learn is not open to scrutiny.
Many teachers are frustrated by the whats and hows of what they are being asked to teach and would like the flexibility to respond to the needs of the pupils as they really are.

I would say the child is back on medication because it makes it easier for him to learn.

The best the "experts" in the programme could come up with was blaming the schools.

I think there is a difference between "blaming" schools and asking important questions about how school might be a factor in the problem and how this should be addressed. The problem is getting worse - and it is a problem for more and more schools - the questions as to why and what should be done need to be asked. Medicating the victims of the system is not the only way forward.

icanhandthemback - I am truly not dismissing the fact that we are all made differently and our inherent make-up creates varying problems for us all in different spheres of life. I am sorry that you and your son have had these challenges in life and it is good to hear that your son has found a positive way forward. I hope that you will achieve this too.

I do not think that questioning the rationale behind a growing phenomenon is gaslighting - it is subjecting this to scrutiny and asking why, whilst at the same time recognising how real the problems are for many.

The lad in this programme went back on the medication because it made him easier to teach and my question is about whether this is morally defensible. His home life and his sense of personal well-being improved when he was not on it.

I am in no way dismissing the problems that some people face. I am simply asking how much of this is exacerbated and possibly generated by their environment and the demands that are made on them by society.

I do think that these are valid concerns, especially in relation to children who have no choice but to spend every termtime day in an environment that runs counter to their whole being. The positive steps that are sometimes put in place to help children who need accommodation made for their personal needs are a positive step forward, but I contend that it should not need a diagnosis to achieve this for them .... that all children are different and their needs and ability to tolerate the school environment varies .... and making proper allowance for this should be a basic part of how a school operates. But schools might be desperate to do this but tied down by the rigid curriculum and OfSted criteria, and the narrow aims of education as a whole.

The school environment is of itself counter to the real nature of children.

The big questions that need looking at relate to the diagnostic thresholds - when does a personality trait become a condition? When does that condition need medicating? At what point do we medicate people to make them fit in better?

If people are entirely happy with who they are (and why should they not be?) then their problems need to be taken in the context of what society is demanding of them. There are of course some people who are objectively troubled by some of their traits and seek a diagnosis, but it is hard to know how much of the distress is situational.

I think talking about ADHD as a social construct is not dismissing it - it is a positive step forward in asking why this is happening and looking at structural rather than medical ways of improving people's lives. It should not be seen as a statement that it is all in the imagination - it clearly is not.

But we have been stuck on the medical model for years and it is not making the problem go away at all.

icanhandthemback

Try living with ADHD and then tell me that it is a social construct. Personally as someone who has struggled with it all their life and felt a complete failure because of it, I find it absolutely disgusting that it can be dismissed as such. My son has been medicated and his life has been completely different ever since. I am currently trying my last attempt at medication as the first 2 medications were not suited to me and I am pleased to say that I have hope that this will make a difference to me.
The programme set out to prove their theory and ignored other evidence that is out there. Furthermore, the child whose medication was withdrawn has had to go back on it despite all the tosh in the programme.
There are many conditions over the years which have been dismissed as being psychological or impossible. Take MS and HEDS as examples. We now know they definitely exist and that the sufferers should have been listened to rather than being gaslighted by the medical profession and ableists.

The programme annoyed me too. I remember children I taught who clearly had ADHD and who would have benefited from medication. I know that when Ritalin started to be used more in the 1990s, that there were concerns about over prescription that I shared in some individual cases, but every child is different.
The best the "experts" in the programme could come up with was blaming the schools.

Try living with ADHD and then tell me that it is a social construct. Personally as someone who has struggled with it all their life and felt a complete failure because of it, I find it absolutely disgusting that it can be dismissed as such. My son has been medicated and his life has been completely different ever since. I am currently trying my last attempt at medication as the first 2 medications were not suited to me and I am pleased to say that I have hope that this will make a difference to me.
The programme set out to prove their theory and ignored other evidence that is out there. Furthermore, the child whose medication was withdrawn has had to go back on it despite all the tosh in the programme.
There are many conditions over the years which have been dismissed as being psychological or impossible. Take MS and HEDS as examples. We now know they definitely exist and that the sufferers should have been listened to rather than being gaslighted by the medical profession and ableists.

ADD/ADHD is not necessarily 'something wrong', though, any more than being left-handed is.

In both cases it's just having different ways of doing things, in a world where it is assumed that they will be done in a particular manner.

Luckygirl3

Human behaviour lies on a spectrum. People vary in their abilities and personalities.
My concern is the medicalisation of what is normal variation.
The explosion in the diagnosis of ADHD has to be seen in context. Our social milieu demands that we conform to behaviours that often run counter to our natures. This is especially true for children, who do of course need to be socialised to encourage cooperation and harmony, but I have long felt that we go about this in the wrong way and that our education system does not nurture the sense of exploration and curiosity that is our nature, nor value difference.

Instead children are faced with a system that rewards sitting still and concentration from too young an age, and whose goals are skewed towards exam results and competition. For some children this feels impossible, not because they have a medical condition but because they are simply of a personality and constitution that does not fit what the system requires of them. In the process their true talents are missed, especially if medication is used.

I believe that some children are labelled with a diagnosis when in fact there is nothing wrong with them .... their personality simply does not fit with their context.

Exactly. We are all different. I was bored in school and bored doing office work. I wanted to do my own thing and when I eventually became self employed I was a different person. Doesn’t mean there was something wrong with me. I didn’t need a label or medication. I just don’t buy this nonsense.

lovethepuppies

I haven't seen it but have heard about it. I'm not buying it. There are documented cases of what would be called ADHD now that go back to ancient times. Brain scans show differences in the brains of people with ADHD. ADHD existed well before there were screens. ADHD is real, though I don't disagree that over use of screens and lack of old fashioned play time, especially outside, are problematic and no doubt cause issues.

And I've trained social workers and take a bio-psychosocial approach to everything. I believe ADHD is rooted in biology but psychological and social elements can have an influence for better for worse. I've noticed that medication does have a place for some people (helping them get through university, for example), but I don't think most ADHD children would need medical if they weren't expected to conform to an educational system that doesn't suit them.

Good comments 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Thee is certainly a good body of research into dietary effects on behaviour.
When working with diagnosed adults with ADHD/ADD there was a place for meds but also and crucially a good routine and structure. It helped people to be more organised. Adults learn how to cope themselves and what they need to do to get through life be it using diaries, notebooks or having partners who understand and can help with timing and organisation.

saltnshake

Just a thought, could the modern diet be in part to blame? Food has so many additives now; what are the long term effects? I wonder about this as USA seems to have a very high number of children labelled as ADHD and it it one of the worst diets in the world for additives. As I say, just a thought.

Remember when that orange colouring was removed from food and drinks because it made children go wappy? ( can’t think of a technical term for it). My son certainly calmed down when he no longer had it. And one of my grandsons went hyper if he had a Coca Cola. We all react to additives in different ways. But drug companies would rather develop expensive tablets to fix things and it’s easier for doctors to prescribe a tablet than look at an overall picture.

I mean obviously they could be wrong, but in my experience by the time training modules are being delivered lots of professionals in the field have noticed specific issues that are of concern.

No theworriedwell like training modules in local authorites being currently delivered run by professionals to examine the issue in particular in relation to trauma.

saltnshake

Just a thought, could the modern diet be in part to blame? Food has so many additives now; what are the long term effects? I wonder about this as USA seems to have a very high number of children labelled as ADHD and it it one of the worst diets in the world for additives. As I say, just a thought.

Why do you use the word 'blame', as a matter of interest?

Galaxy

From my end it is the qualified ed psychs who are expressing more concern about this than the people diagnosing others or dismissing it all as nonsense. In my cynical experience if professionals are tentatively expressing concerns about an issue, it is in fact a massive concern for them.

Like that doctor who was telling parents not to get their babies vaccinated and it would give them ASD? He was the one who got debunked.

Luckygirl3

I feel there is a huge difference between an adult choosing medication because they feel that their personality features are causing them problems and a child being medicated at the choice of their parents and school because it makes them easier to manage.

I do think there are very real moral aspects to be considered.

And the vested interests of drug producers are not to be dismissed. There is big money in all of ths.

I know of so many examples where a child could not fit in with school but once they later found their niche they are thriving and are valued. The child of a friend of mine could not manage school - changes of school were tried to no avail. After struggling through his childhood and being very unhappy he went to agricultural college and is now employed and blossoming - he is out and about on tractors, mending machinery, troubleshooting logistical problems - his hyperfocus is a huge asset to his employers and his "overactivity" is channelled in a positive way. What a waste of his childhood .....

Being diagnosed does not automatically mean medicated. Maybe the diagnosis means certain allowances are made at school that allows the child to cope, thinking about a child who was a friend of one of mine. When it all got too much she was allowed to go out for a walk round the playground which allowed her to go back in to class and learn. To me that was a positive.

Just a thought, could the modern diet be in part to blame? Food has so many additives now; what are the long term effects? I wonder about this as USA seems to have a very high number of children labelled as ADHD and it it one of the worst diets in the world for additives. As I say, just a thought.

And yes, valdadi - the losing things is horrible, and not at all connected to lack of care or an 'easy come, easy go' attitude.

lovethepuppies

I haven't seen it but have heard about it. I'm not buying it. There are documented cases of what would be called ADHD now that go back to ancient times. Brain scans show differences in the brains of people with ADHD. ADHD existed well before there were screens. ADHD is real, though I don't disagree that over use of screens and lack of old fashioned play time, especially outside, are problematic and no doubt cause issues.

And I've trained social workers and take a bio-psychosocial approach to everything. I believe ADHD is rooted in biology but psychological and social elements can have an influence for better for worse. I've noticed that medication does have a place for some people (helping them get through university, for example), but I don't think most ADHD children would need medical if they weren't expected to conform to an educational system that doesn't suit them.

Your last sentance sums up what a mother said in the film.
I witnessed a very distressing scene recently. My young friend has an autistic son. He doesn’t go to a mainstream school.
As he’s hit purity he has become aggressive ( so do a lot of young boys without autism.
My friend contacted her support worker. My friend wasn’t in on the interview with her son where they diagnosed ADHD.
Very clever of her as he is practically non verbal.
The out come was that he was put on a medication that gave him such extreme headaches he was hitting his head and banging his head on the floor.
It’s a national disgrace what they are doing to our children 🤬

Aveline

It's not just ed psychs who diagnose. Clinical psychologists and psychiatrists are key diagnosticians. In order to have meds prescribed it has to be a psychiatrist diagnosing. Of course people buy meds from the internet!

I know. I added 'etc' as I knew there would be a comment . I was just separating out those with professional expertise from those without, regardless of whether the unqualified are cynics or those with lived experience.

I also agree with Cossy and Luckygirl above, but would add that unless there is an open discussion about ADD/ADHD without people jumping to conclusions about self-diagnosis and/or 'excuses' this will never happen. IMO teaching styles and school arrangements should be designed to suit all children, so that some of the time they are learning 'traditionally', and at others they are given freer rein.

Also expectations about things like regular study, (as opposed to short bursts of intense concentration) should be made more inclusive. I hated regular homework, for instance, but could mug up on complex concepts by staying up late and focussing. That was assumed to be laziness and an inability to stick to a routine, rather than knowing how I perform best and an intolerance of low-level 'plodding'. The styles were just different - one wasn't better than the other.

Things may have changed since my children were at school, and this may already be happening, though. I'd like to think so.

Instead children are faced with a system that rewards sitting still and concentration from too young an age

Agree,I still feel sad all these years later when I think of my little bright boy in Reception. The only person he liked was a dinner lady who helped him open up a banana. Crying, couldn't sleep,ill, exhausted.

Above & beyond the drugs though, it is good for it to be recognised. I cannot remember where I've put things, lose things, forget things. My Mum used to be horrible she use to say try to look after things I would tell her I tried hard, she would say, not hard enough you have to try harder. I'[ve been in tears trying to explain how much I cared about not losing things, not upsetting her, but it just didn't translate into being able to pay attention better on a minute to minute basis throughout the day.
My son has it too & D-i-L & me, & to a lesser extent his dad, do understand however annoying it is for us, he can't help it, & we all try & devise strategies.
So even without drug treatment, a diagnosis can mean less misunderstanding & blame for someone with this (annoying) condition.
We both did quite well at school although known for fidgetting from Y1 through to Y13.

It's not just ed psychs who diagnose. Clinical psychologists and psychiatrists are key diagnosticians. In order to have meds prescribed it has to be a psychiatrist diagnosing. Of course people buy meds from the internet!

From my end it is the qualified ed psychs who are expressing more concern about this than the people diagnosing others or dismissing it all as nonsense. In my cynical experience if professionals are tentatively expressing concerns about an issue, it is in fact a massive concern for them.

Luckygirl3

I feel there is a huge difference between an adult choosing medication because they feel that their personality features are causing them problems and a child being medicated at the choice of their parents and school because it makes them easier to manage.

I do think there are very real moral aspects to be considered.

And the vested interests of drug producers are not to be dismissed. There is big money in all of ths.

I know of so many examples where a child could not fit in with school but once they later found their niche they are thriving and are valued. The child of a friend of mine could not manage school - changes of school were tried to no avail. After struggling through his childhood and being very unhappy he went to agricultural college and is now employed and blossoming - he is out and about on tractors, mending machinery, troubleshooting logistical problems - his hyperfocus is a huge asset to his employers and his "overactivity" is channelled in a positive way. What a waste of his childhood .....

Great post and I agree.