One in five new teachers leaving.

The "Manosphere" has been created by societies tolerance of bad behaviour, encouraged by violence and porn on the media.

It's not rocket science, why do so many, children, men, women behave badly ?, because they can, there is no effective sanction. We have been indoctrinated that bad behaviour is normal. Democracy does not permit effective control .

My eldest daughter teaches English in a “good” Secondary school and says that since COVID attendance has been terrible which has led to very poor performance and behaviour. The “Manosphere” has had a huge negative influence on boys’ behaviour to such an extent that many girls refuse to attend. She is seriously considering whether she wants to continue teaching after her baby is born later this year.

Ps I loved my job and the kids but workload is very stressful

Don't blame them! I taught secondary for nearly 40 years. Workload is horrendous and always has been. People just see 9-4 and holidays! They don't see the unpaid extra curricular that you are expected to get involved with, school excursions are not a 'jolly' but full on loco parentis 24/7, weekends arefor getting following week's class prep and marking done as there is not enough time at work to complete, Easter School, Extra exam prep, dealing with bad behaviour, ISIS, meetings, summer holudays arefor preparing new term, being in school for students post exam results.......Try and deal with all that 9-4

Chocolatelovinggran

MartavTaurus, what makes you so confident that teachers made redundant from fee paying schools " will in no way be applying for posts in the state sector"?
A public school nearby closed very abruptly, and I know of two teachers who have been successful in achieving posts in local secondaries.
I understand that the primary teachers are applying for vacancies, also.

Because in my long experience, most of the teachers employed in independent schools have already tried the state sector, and left.

I'm pleased if they want to try their luck again in the state sector, and if they're being offered jobs it shows they come with great skills probably nutured by their current employer.

I don’t know why it seems to go back to children in nappies, unless it’s part of the general feeling of lack of support for teachers/schools from some parents at any stage of school life.
That could in its turn relate to numbers of teachers leaving. The workload, the meetings, the behaviour and the parental attacks?

1 in 4 children or 4 children in a class not trained ( 1/3 of children or 10 per class in the North-East if Google is to be believed ).

1 in 5 teachers leaving according to the OP.

Roughly 1 in 4 parents report a total breakdown of trust with their child's school.

At least the numbers are stable.

MartavTaurus, what makes you so confident that teachers made redundant from fee paying schools " will in no way be applying for posts in the state sector"?
A public school nearby closed very abruptly, and I know of two teachers who have been successful in achieving posts in local secondaries.
I understand that the primary teachers are applying for vacancies, also.

JaneJudge

Why do these threads always go back to children in nappies? Kids were still being institutionalised in the 1980s. I can’t remember seeing a single child with a disability in my community in the 80s and.90s. My mums friends daughter had a severe disability so I knew her but that was basically it.

Because it’s a growing issue. Not with children with SEN but with NT children whose parents simply haven’t toilet-trained them. Teachers have enough to cope with, without toilet training too.

Love59

Lord of the Flies is a complex tale of a group’s descent into loss of civilising influences and the absence of boundaries. I sincerely hope that this is not what is happening in our schools….

When I started school boundaries were there to be broken, it was cool even in those days to "get away with it". I very quickly found out that I got caught and the penalties were not worth it.. and often painful.
Now there are no effective penalties so bad behavior is the norm in many schools.

Lord of the Flies is a complex tale of a group’s descent into loss of civilising influences and the absence of boundaries. I sincerely hope that this is not what is happening in our schools….

Sarnia

So much for Bridget Phillipson and Rachel Reeves claims that the 20% VAT on private schools would mean 6,500 more teachers. All this cruel decision has done is condemn SEND children back to the mainstream system which failed them in the first place because their families cannot afford the increase in fees. These 2 made the assumption that all children attending private schools have wealthy parents. Wrong!

👏 👏 👏 👏

And let's mention all those dedicated teachers who have lost their jobs but will in no way be applying for posts in the state sector.

So much for Bridget Phillipson and Rachel Reeves claims that the 20% VAT on private schools would mean 6,500 more teachers. All this cruel decision has done is condemn SEND children back to the mainstream system which failed them in the first place because their families cannot afford the increase in fees. These 2 made the assumption that all children attending private schools have wealthy parents. Wrong!

Why do these threads always go back to children in nappies? Kids were still being institutionalised in the 1980s. I can’t remember seeing a single child with a disability in my community in the 80s and.90s. My mums friends daughter had a severe disability so I knew her but that was basically it.

In no circumstances would I even consider going back to teaching. For one thing, I am now 74. At my age, I might still be able to teach senior school competently and well, but I assuredly could not bend over junior school desks, for even five minutes.

The fact that young teachers give up, and try to find other jobs, is in many ways due to their training not being adequate.

No one discusses keeping discipline, or how to deal with difficult parents, (or unhelpful colleagues) few training colleges address the inclusive practice that populates a classroom with a certain number of children with special needs alongside healthy, bright children. Such a mixture is challenging for a teacher, as is the class that is unruly.

It is one thing to have learned school subjects and how to teach them well, during your own professional training, but if we want to keep young teachers in the profession, which we do, we need to ensure that they have more experience in actual classrooms as part of their training, with an experienced teacher to help solve the problems that will and do confront the new, young teacher.

I know of a private school which years ago under the old headmistress was very sought after by parents. There was a waiting list from birth. The staff were so well established they were there from 21 to 60! As the years passed and the headmistress retired, new people came and the school started to decline. There were many stories flying around about behaviour from both staff and pupils and also poor financial management. It was sad to see this schools decline but in the old days it was run on old ways. Today is had to turn around to survive but it is under constant scrutiny. They even have places available for next autumn which would never have occurred back in the day! Parents play a huge role as do teachers.

"Not to mention the increasing number of children with behaviour issues - there seems to be that a diagnosis gives a child a free pass to be naughty, taking advantage of their diagnosis to misbehave.
And what is it that a child cannot go an hour or 2 without a drink or go to the toilet?"

50+ yrs ago there were undoubtedly pupils with learning or behavior disabilities that were not recognized but their behavior expected to be good and punishment followed if it was not.

There is no reason whatsoever that someone with a disability should be treated differently, if they are that only encourages others to follow them.

Westendgirl - I totally agree with you about infants+juniors (years 1-3 in Scotland) being the hardest years to teach.

Me, too!

They go into teaching because they like to teach, but all the targets, evidence and paperwork are not what they signed up for.
Teachers who have been doing it for years, know what they are doing, and it should get easier with repeating what they did last year and the year before; but over recent years everything changes every year, so there is additional work. Then there are national pre-prepared lessons, so flexibility and ability to use skills are downgraded.
Then there is an ever-reducing budget for support staff, with that money going into senior admin teams, and executive head roles.
Not to mention the increasing number of children with behaviour issues - there seems to be that a diagnosis gives a child a free pass to be naughty, taking advantage of their diagnosis to misbehave.
And what is it that a child cannot go an hour or 2 without a drink or go to the toilet?

25Avalon

No I couldn’t be a teacher today. If one of the little blighters chucked a chair at me I’d probably clout him and end up sacked or in prison.

I volunteer in school. I was packing to leave when I heard a child shouting in the corridor. I went out and came behind a child raising a chair over his head about to throw at a TA standing below him on the stairs. I grabbed the chair from him and said quite sternly "you do NOT want to be doing that". The TA told me to go back into the classroom. I stepped into the doorway but did not leave for her safety. The child calmed enough to be asked, not told, asked if he would like to go out to play. I got told off for interfering!!!!

karmalady

My male relative has recently left, a top notch teacher of science. It was never the children, he could easily keep good discipline being respected as ex-military officer. It was the bullying headmaster, who tried to gag him and felt threatened by this teacher who could hold attention by his presence, eloquence, knowledge and excellent exam results

He has had a break to recover and was temporarily employed within large beautiful grounds, responsible for teaching various sports. He was biding his time and has now been accepted for the police force and has been told he will be fast tracked. They rang him two hours after interview.

Very similar story with my son. Poor leadership team with bullying behaviours. The teenage pupils adored him and he loved teaching. He was one of the few teachers who continued to go into school during Covid and really went the extra mile. He reluctantly resigned and now has a great job travelling all over the world. My friend’s daughter is a primary school teacher and had her hand fractured by a 9 year old last week! Parent at a follow up meeting expects the child to stay in the school, her little angel couldn’t possibly be in the wrong!

It always descends into a competitive discussion about potty training every time schools are mentioned Romola 🤣

Why has this thread become all about potty training?
I think it's worrying that one-third of secondary teachers have quit within the first five years of their careers.
I did a PGCE aged 35 after previously working in another field. I remember being excellently supported as a newbie and later on being a support to younger colleagues.
It can be tough and exhausting and not that well paid but the plus factors are many: real satisfaction in seeing pupils progress, colleagues nearly all great people, and yes, holidays that fit with bringing up a family..
I think all aspiring teachers should spend a year as teachers' assistants before being accepted on to training courses.

My daughter started to study to become a primary school teacher at what we all thought was a reputable institution. How wrong we were.
Many of the students were not fully literate or numerate and had come in via Access courses - which are great in principle. However having taught in FE I know that the colleges are only paid when students successfully complete their courses, and sadly not everyone who passes is fully competent.
Quite a few students were thrown off the university course within the first few weeks, and by the end of the first year most of the brighter students had left to pursue other courses or careers. It was clear that the degree qualification they could have obtained would not have been as valuable as they expected.

M0nica

I think we have been too forgiving of people for too long. It is in fact very patronising saying 'We understand because you work and/or are poor you cannot possibly be expected to reach the standards that most ordinary people attain,' one of those standards being potting training your children before they start school.

It would probably be much better for people in many apsects of life if we actually told them what was expected of them and facilitated it.

One sanction we could bring in is insist that any child starting school in nappies, with no good reason should have a parent with them on school days ready to change them when needed. Of course this will cause the parents problems if they work, but for the same reason it would also be an incentive for the parents to get the child potty trained before they start school.

Banning them from school would not be a good sanction as the child could be out of school for a long time because a parent will not engage with potty training and when the child starts school, may be a term after their contemporaries, they will then go back to school, well behind other children and needing extra teaching assistance to help them catch up.

They wouldn't need to catch up because they could be held back and taught with children of the same maturity (no matter chronological age).