Four more horses die in the name of ‘sport’

It would have to be phased out over a number of years until it was gone and the race horses, if not being bred would automatically decline.
Phased out over a number of years? That might work for cars, but horses are a bit like pensioners.

The ones in work are paying for the ones who are not working so if there were no young horses coming along to pay for the horses in existence, there would be insufficient money to keep the ones in existence.
Actually it’s like pensioners in another way. Some are now expected to work until they drop, with the advancing pensionable age.

Sometimes in jobs which they are no longer physically able to do to the standard, they expect of themselves or others expect of them.
What’s the same for us and horses, is that no rich people are going to come along and pay for us to be put out to pasture in comfort.

Wyllow3

The rich owners can afford to have them live out ordinary horse lives in a field.

Simple.

Again is is too much to ask that people would do some factual research into the problems before expressing opinions based on fantasy.

Several posters have explained that racing thoroughbreds are unsuited to a life out at pasture, that they would be uncomfortable, vulnerable to all kinds of ailments and have short miserable lives.

Though I suppose as long as the sight of them in pasture is available to allow the ignorant to happily sigh over them that won’t really matter.

This is the danger of an uniformed “crusade’ that is carried out to satisfy human need to feel virtuous.

As for rich owners keeping horses in their fields, the majority are corporate ownerships or owned by people from abroad. So would you ship them out to their owners? Very few owners actually have any land on which to pasture a horse. Where will these mythical fields come from?

And how would you “phase out” racing? Smaller and smaller race meetings? It would not take lng for meetings and horses to no longer be financially viable and they would then stop abruptly, with the consequent problems of several thousand unwanted horses.

All these are real issues that will not be solved by dreamy visions. But reality rarely gives the crusader that feel-good factor.

The reality they can’t or won’t face is that ban racing will mean that horses will be slaughtered. That may be a choice that is ultimately to the good, but it needs to be faced by those calling for an end to racing.

More likely is that having achieved a ban they will simply walk away and leave others to deal with a mess that they find just too upsetting.

I am very conflicted over this.

I do not ride, and never have. I tried it once as a child and the horse bit me! I can take a hint!

But 2 of my DDs had great joy from their riding and it was a stable influence () during their teenage years. We live near the Welsh mountains and they went on happy rides in beautiful scenery. And I had no doubt at all that the horses/ponies were being well looked after - they were certainly much loved by my DDs.

But I am less sanguine about horse racing as, at base, it is about making money from asking a horse to run faster than it normally would in the wild or than is comfortable for it. Do we have the right to ask them to do this for our entertainment or income? - I am not so sure.

As I said upthread, I have always felt conflicted about our relationship with the animal kingdom and the basic assumption that it is there for us to control. For us to decide which are to be valued and how their lives should be.

I love the wildlife round here - the squirrels and the birds bob around my garden doing their thing unmolested, except by their predators.

Survival of the fittest is the rule by which our world is predicated. Does that give us the right to dictate how other species should live, or indeed whether they should live or die? I don't know ....

"Should we whip our children or employees 6 times to “encourage” them?"

Fortunately we share a language with which we can explain why they need to hurry up, we don't have that with a horse and they don't know they are heading for the finishing line or that there's just one fence left. Having been smacked hard with a racing whip, I'm either extremely thick skinned or it's a pretty poor device for inflicting pain as it is cushioned with air. It does make a noise though and horses will be trained to react to the noise.
My daughter evented at quite a high level and would always carry a whip, eg carried in the left hand it guards the horse from drifting left, a tap down the shoulder said to the horse, "Ok mate we need to concentrate on this or stay straight" and a tap on the backside said "nearly home, mate, but we need to pick up speed if we are going to make the time" If it's used to inflict punishment then I'm more than happy to ban the rider from competing, end of!

‘How would you suggest they could be accommodated?’

MaizieD I don’t think anyone is imagining horse racing would stop over night. It would have to be phased out over a number of years until it was gone and the race horses, if not being bred would automatically decline. It doesn’t mean no one could own a horse, or have stables or children have riding lessons etc. just the awful racing …..and…. after seeing that woman whip her horse in dressage training, that should go as well.
Horses should be wild, or domesticated and living in stables, or on farms, or in private ownership but not being USED and ABUSED

I suppose the 'animal lovers' that freed the farmed mink were being kind to them. They didn't think beyond fluffy kindness. Shame they've driven our native water vole almost to extinction. I wonder if those 'liberators' ever have a moment of guilt, a pang of regret that they didn't research or consider the consequences of their actions.

It would be good to hear some considered plans for what would happen to all the horses in existence today. As others have said, thoroughbreds would not cope with being put out to pasture. They wouldn't become a predator to any native species, but neither would they thrive into a happy old age.

The rich owners can afford to have them live out ordinary horse lives in a field.

Simple.

GrannyGravy13

BlueBelle the use of a whip on race horses is restricted nowadays.

No more than 6 strikes for encouragement according to the racing rules.

I am against cruelty to any animals trainers and owners are governed by strict rules and regulations.

Should we whip our children or employees 6 times to “encourage” them?
Dogs? Cats?

Many of the horses involved in eventing are from the track, especially those at the lower levels. Would those who want racing banned have eventing banned too? What about show jumping? What about dressage? What about showing and carriage driving? What about children's gymkhana ponies or the horses that are hacked out for pleasure? I've always done a bit of everything on my horses as I've liked them to have variety. My little TB did a nice dressage test, pulled my arms out going cross country but would do the filthiest stop if he didn't like the look of a fence (hence broken ribs and two fractured vertebra (fortunately stable) and was a very careful show jumper up to a metre then he said, "no, too big for me". He'd hack out in the heaviest traffic but was a complete idiot over a bit of flappy paper in a hedge or a car parked in the "wrong" place. He was an absolute gentleman to handle unless it was very windy. Anyone who has ridden will know that horses and ponies have a very strong opinion about what they will and won't do and frankly the relationship with their rider is absolutely key and I don't believe you ever train a horse successfully using cruelty as they will let you down at the worst possible moment if they don't trust you.

Time passing and no further breeding would soon take care of these surplus creatures.
Doesn't solve the problem of the initial ban. What fate do you envisage for all those horses already in existence? Have you already a viable plan in mind?

Me too. Except the only contact I had with horses was watching the racing on tv with my dad. When my parents died it seemed like a way of connecting back to the past especially as we joined a racing club based in Birmingham so used to travel back there for meetings ( Stirchley working men’s club).

jeffreykearney6

I noticed you love horse racing, I base in Birmingham where football activities are common more than horse racing.

Actually I don't love horse racing, I love horses and I love riding. I grew up in Birmingham in a working class family with no money and the only time I saw a horse was pulling the rag and bone man's cart. My father was a Villa supporter but I wanted a pony from a very young age. My younger daughter sat on a donkey at the Birmingham Botanical gardens aged 3 and also fell in love with equines and not many years after that we lived in the country and started to live the life I'd always dreamed of as a child. Dreams do come true!

I noticed you love horse racing, I base in Birmingham where football activities are common more than horse racing.

Aveline

Time passing and no further breeding would soon take care of these surplus creatures. Owners and trainers already get rid of horses that don't measure up to the requirements for making money. Ask the Bookies what they'd do? Bankruptcy would be facing them. Good. Gambling is a scourge.

There would be some 28,000 horses to take care of initially. It's not just a few hundred.

How would you suggest they could be accommodated?

(though I suspect that a great many of them would be quietly euthanised)

Four more horses died that critical situation, poor feeding growth.

"British Racing: Key Facts
Attendances – 5.77 million attendees at over
1,500 fixtures held at 59 racecourses, with four
of the top ten sports events in the UK.
Revenues generated – Annual expenditure
of over £3.5 billion, with a tax contribution of
£300 million from racecourses, participants
and a world-leading breeding industry.
Levy – c.£95 million raised in 2018 after levy
reform amidst rising betting activity on British
racing, of over £14 billion per annum.
Employment – Over 17,400 FTE jobs in the
industry across rural Britain; approximately 450
jockeys, 550 trainers & 6,500 stable staff.
Scottish racing – Across five racecourses and
training yards, Scottish Racing generates £300
million annually in turnover and supports
3,400 full-time "

What the above does not reflect is the additional money that flows into the economy from Hospitality and catering, equestrian clothing, equipment and bespoke couture like Holland and Cooper, manufacturers of horse boxes, etc the list is pretty endless really, nor does it mention the amount of money that goes into horse welfare via betting etc.

All horse related activities are under the spotlight and there is and has been ongoing changes to equipment, competition rules, the training of horses and riders etc. As someone who has been fairly close to horses for a longish time, I would hate to see horses become a rare species and the fact is because they are expensive and extremely time consuming to care for unless they have a job, the only place they will be kept is in the zoo or for some of our wonderful native breeds, mowing the grass on moors and in National Parks.

My life has been enriched by horses, my younger daughter led a life of excitement and freedom which helped to make her the resilient and independent adult she has become. I wish more not fewer children could have the same experience. Banning racing would be the thin end of the wedge and I hope for everyone who loves horses this never happens.

I still maintain that the worst death for any horse is colic. And that can happen to any horse, anytime. Of the horses I’ve known several have had heart attacks, several ( including my own) died of colic, the worst being one that died in agony over night. A foal that was kicked to death by another horse in the field and another much loved older horse that broke a leg in the field. And I don’t personally know of it happening but mares die foaling, even with the best veterinary care in the world. I can’t imagine the world that organisations like PETA want, which seems to be free of animals entirely. No pet dogs or cats.

Gambling is a scourge, I do agree.

Time passing and no further breeding would soon take care of these surplus creatures. Owners and trainers already get rid of horses that don't measure up to the requirements for making money. Ask the Bookies what they'd do? Bankruptcy would be facing them. Good. Gambling is a scourge.

It seems to be too much to ask impassioned supporters of a ban just how they would manage those huge initial numbers of race horses.

Exactly where do they think the funds and facilities to keep them to the end of their natural lives will come from?

Not too mention the idea of turning out thoroughbred racehorses to survive in open fields. Is that ignorance?

or a deliberate ignoring of the cruelty that would be in that the horses can suffer as long the protesters can maintain their fantasy of happy horses in green meadows.

I await a viable plan. Even a remotely viable suggestion. Otherwise it’s just people making themselves feel good by being ‘true animal lovers” and bathing themselves in virtue wth their impassioned statements. Dazzled by their own rhetoric.

Apologies to Maremia who has at least considered the problems and made suggestions.

I do think we humans have very strange relationships with the animal world, much of which sadly involves exploitation. Horses are trained so that they can make money for their owners. Dogs are doted on and turned into fur babies. Lambs are slaughtered for food. Robins are cute, but corvids are the baddies.

But it all involves control in one way or another.

Do we have this right? Is this how things should be? I simply do not know.......

Oreo

They’re race horses, it’s what they do, and they have pretty nice lives and are well taken care of.
If a race horses breaks a leg they are put to sleep usually and sometimes either after or during a race a horse drops dead unexpectedly, a bit like happens to often young people, playing football.Heart problems undiagnosed.
So what would posters like, steeplechase to be banned or flat racing or all? What would happen to all the thousands of race horses?

First line ‘it’s what they do’ …. It’s what they are bred for and MADE to do
‘if a race horse breaks a leg they are put to sleep’ put to sleep such a sweet saying, a nice calm, cuddly sleep They ARE SHOT, killed, of no use, not needed won’t make the owner money so .. boom
A race horse drops dead because it’s poor heart cannot go any faster and it’s likened to a human with a defective heart problem, the horses’ heart was fine until the human pushed it beyond what it can take.

What would posters like ?racing to be banned? … YES definitely completely banned
What would happen to all the race horses ? They would eventually die out because no one would be breeding and bidding big money for these fine animals, in the meantime they should all be retired to live a normal life, whatever that is chewing grass and running round fields.
Dog racing should also go as soon as
And fox hunting which had a very very halfhearted ruling (which doesn’t work) brought in
And breeding birds to be shot (by royals and the gentry !)

All horrible human exploitation

Maybe Maremia or maybe those involved could do more to ensure welfare and safety issues are given more priority. Whipping a horse that’s already running its heart out for you just feels wrong.

Dog training circles are deep in debate about the use of aversive training tools and techniques verses positive only methods. As ever, it’s the extremes that hit the headlines but in neither camp does anyone ever suggest beating, hitting or frightening a dog.

We no longer see taking strap to a naughty child, or wife for that matter, as a reasonable solution. Attitudes change.

Bans are growing, on greyhound racing. Eventually the 'sport' will fade away, in this country.
Bullfighting is being phased out abroad.
Perhaps this will also be the fate of horse racing?

Oreo

They’re race horses, it’s what they do, and they have pretty nice lives and are well taken care of.
If a race horses breaks a leg they are put to sleep usually and sometimes either after or during a race a horse drops dead unexpectedly, a bit like happens to often young people, playing football.Heart problems undiagnosed.
So what would posters like, steeplechase to be banned or flat racing or all? What would happen to all the thousands of race horses?

There is serious abuse of animals for sport and betting. This includes dog racing. They are not all well taken care of . They are drugged to performance enhance and mask injuries that cause them pain. They are bred in a way that is good for racing but not long term for a quality of life as they are raced far too young . When they are of no use they can be sold for slaughter . They are not all treated to a nice retirement in a field as you might think. Animals should never be used for racing, betting or entertainment. Where there is money to be made there will be abuse that follows.