Peace of Mind

Young people can usually take on extra shifts or an extra job to earn more money. Pensioners usually can’t due to age and poor health

Only partly true (the second part) - you omit that GPS are often committed to help out with childcare often several days a week.
You seem to argue against holiday clubs and presumably by extension after school clubs, breakfast clubs and (expensive) nurseries.
Who’s going to be responsible for the childcare when mum or dad does those extra shifts or an evening or the extra weekend job?
I’m not arguing that poverty doesn’t exist at all strata in society or that we pensioners are either well off or not- individual circumstances vary.

Firstly, I know very few pensioners who could afford cruises and champagne
Really?
Look at the various threads here- quite a few cruises, and second/holiday homes for starters.

I have far more peace of mind now the corrupt tories with their gradual demolition of public services aren’t in power. How anyone can think the country was better off with them in power beats me( unless you were one of their well off cronies).

Doodledog

What has happened with this Labour government is easy to understand. They have to make up for years of corruption and incompetence, and this will not be easy for anyone.

I agree that there will be some older people who will struggle with the WFP withdrawal, and the timing and delivery were atrocious, but KS is governing the whole country - not just pensioners - and it is not just pensioners who are poor. Money that would have gone to older people who can afford cruises and champagne can (and should) be diverted to children who are going to school hungry. I don’t understand how anyone can argue otherwise.

Means-testing is always iniquitous. Always. But there may be announcements of measures in the budget that will help those who needed the payment but won’t get it - I hope so.

I’m going to argue with your middle paragraph.

Firstly, I know very few pensioners who could afford cruises and champagne. I do though know loads of young families who are now expecting their kids to be fed by anyone but themselves. Kids are all well dressed, posh buggies, phones, cars etc but they say they can’t afford to feed their kids! Sorry, not buying that one.

Young people can usually take on extra shifts or an extra job to earn more money. Pensioners usually can’t due to age and poor health.

We all brought up our kids with no breakfast clubs, no food banks, no free school meals (except the very poorest) no free nursery places and no benefits other than family allowance/child benefit.

So I definitely think pensioners are more deserving.

heavenlyheath

The labour party definitely seem to be picking on pensioners we are an easy target we are hardly going to go out on the streets protesting. Low paid workers get universal credits and we are expected to live on much less a week, our savings are dwindling on everyday essentials. There is no fun in getting old.😓

There is no fun in getting old, I agree. But how are pensioners being picked on or targeted? Younger people can apply for UC, and pensioners can apply for Pension Credit.

Marg75

I didn't say not raising the tax threshold was targeting pensioners but as we don't get actual pay rises like the working population, or a chance to earn more money, we will lose out on paying extra tax every time the state pension goes up which it obviously does each year.

But pensions go up in line with the rises gained by the working population, with the added protections of the triple lock. Pensioners are being treated the same as everyone else.

That doesn't mean that the personal allowance shouldn't rise - I think it definitely should - but IMO the argument is weakened when it implies that pensioners are being targeted, or even 'attacked'.

keepingquiet

Personally I felt far more vulnerable under the previous government who had stripped the country's coffers to line their own pockets.
I think we now have to face up to the reality of what happened when people ignored project 'fear' and voted for Brexit. Most of the voters who said they didn't mind the bit of hardship that Brexit would bring are now beginning to experience that hardship.
All I can say is this is what people voted for and it is now going to be a very bumpy ride indeed.
When you are feeling sorry for yourself think about the young people who cannot afford to leave home due to ridiculous rents, poor wages and working conditions, and even if they move out they cannot afford to save for a mortgage deposit or even dream of owning their own home. The idea that they might ever be able to retire with a state pension is laughable.
Yes, we are all feeling vulnerable but at least we can say as David Cameron did before he gave into the pressure of holding a referendum; 'we're all in it together.'

completely agree...

Feel more worried now that Labour seem set on killing of pensioners by taking as much away from us as they can! After being sneered at for getting Pension credit thanks to early medical retirement now more older people are being encouraged to try for it. Would encourage them too try but dont expect a miraculous amount of money as it only brings those on the lower pension or who like me could no longer afford the ‘small’ stamp so on a very small amount of pension level with the existing older pension if you are as old as me (80 soon)! Do wonder if much else is stopped how we all will manage to stay warm & eat! Guess it is a good way to get rid of us old uns & make way for the young ones who need our space as I was told by a very arrogant young man who told me also that I should get a job or kill myself! Wont tell you what I told him to do as I would be banned from GN for life! Keep on going everyone! We are worth more!

A 2% wealth tax on assets over 10 million could raise 24 billion.

The labour party definitely seem to be picking on pensioners we are an easy target we are hardly going to go out on the streets protesting. Low paid workers get universal credits and we are expected to live on much less a week, our savings are dwindling on everyday essentials. There is no fun in getting old.😓

I didn't say not raising the tax threshold was targeting pensioners but as we don't get actual pay rises like the working population, or a chance to earn more money, we will lose out on paying extra tax every time the state pension goes up which it obviously does each year.

I only voted conservative this time because we have a good local MP and I didn't want to lose him. That said, I agree that the country needed a new govt but probably not one with a huge majority. I am getting tired of hearing about the 22 bn black hole and how Starmer is thinking about 'working people'. We retired people were workers once and current WP will be retired one day. DH and I both still pay taxes on our pensions and are fortunate enough to be comfortably off but I feel we are being blamed for all the country's problems. Maybe the next step will be making euthanasia freely available!

I've recently read online that Labour are considering:-
Abolishing single occupancy 25% discount council tax
Abolishing tax free pension lump sum and taxing it
Changing car road tax to Pay per mile
Charging everyone for prescriptions
Abolishing bus passes
I hope it isn't true but we will see in the October budget

Pensioners have the same tax threshold as everyone else.

I agree that it should be higher (for everyone) as inflation has eaten into its value, but I don't think it sitting where it is is an attack on pensioners.

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned here is the tax threshold. It's alright talking about pensioners getting the rise in April but if the tax threshold doesn't change we will be paying more tax! Another debit for us!

Doodledog

What has happened with this Labour government is easy to understand. They have to make up for years of corruption and incompetence, and this will not be easy for anyone.

I agree that there will be some older people who will struggle with the WFP withdrawal, and the timing and delivery were atrocious, but KS is governing the whole country - not just pensioners - and it is not just pensioners who are poor. Money that would have gone to older people who can afford cruises and champagne can (and should) be diverted to children who are going to school hungry. I don’t understand how anyone can argue otherwise.

Means-testing is always iniquitous. Always. But there may be announcements of measures in the budget that will help those who needed the payment but won’t get it - I hope so.

Very well said!

I agree with you orly there has to be many more ways to raise money without raiding the WFA, it's disgraceful. The only members of society who cannot fight back. Seen as an easy target. It'll come back and bite them of that I'm sure.

I think the cut off point was/is too low for WFA. I think it would have been better to announce it as part of a package of all the measures in the budget to see the whole picture across the board and introduce it for 2025.

In looking at unnecessary expenses I've said several times MP's need to show willing but why do we forget the non public sector, where we are not scrutinising earnings, bonuses, pay outs in say Thames Water to shareholders, banks, other big organisations where many are sitting pretty willingly watching the tides of criticism against public sector workers.

I'm astonished about any illusion that we were safe and OK until the election. anyone who was greatly in need of NHS or care services could not be unaware of the way things were going. and Sunak was promising tax cuts for goodness sake, where do we think they would have fallen so it didn't affect us pensioners?

Tuaim

I don't know what has happened with this labour government. They should have had some much higher cap when it came to the winter fuel cap. I do understand that people with very good incomes may not need it and this will be reflected in the amount of income tax they pay. If people do pay a good amount of income tax, then I do understand them not being eligible. But why target the middle and lower income pensioners.?

I agree those who pay higher rate of income tax to loose WFA . It does feel if the pensioners are being picked on. I am concerned about the future.

I don't think Starmer is looking after the 'whole country' as someone said I think the LP has made it clear that they are looking after 'working people' which is their constant comment and seemingly excludes pensioners. It seems to me they share the belief of many young people that pensioners are a drain on society, have always had it good and don't deserve more help.
I was interested to read yesterday that the LP had previously challenged the Conservatives many times on not getting rid of the WFP for pensioners and now they've done exactly that themselves. For many years the LP manifesto has included a promise to maintain this payment but not this year!

Luckygirl3 Given time I am sure that the government will be looking at all avenues to recoup revenue where it can - and this is what they should be doing.

Absolutely as they should and must......but do you not appreciate the concern/fear that withdrawing pensioner's WFA was the very first thing that came to mind? Not getting Amazon and the like to pay their rightful share of taxation, not to perhaps immediately withdraw the subsidies afforded to very well paid MPs on their food (and alcohol!) in the HOC, not immediately stopping any other expenditure in any other area, but instead targeting a cohort who have zero power to fight back. I'm not against withdrawal of WFA from wealthier pensioners, but this decision to be implemented immediately with no time to plan, adjust budgets etc is unnecessarily harsh and will reap such a tiny amount in the greater picture. Stopping MPs subsidies would achieve a much smaller return than stopping WFA but would at least indicate an awareness of their unnecessary handouts.

I agree with you, Margaret, and feel the same. Although I was glad to see the back the Tories I didn't vote for Labour, choosing Reform instead. Have you noticed how Reeves and Starmer are standing up for workers? I only stopped being a worker when I became a pensioner (and a WASPI to boot) so I'm galled to hear striking workers being given above inflation pay rises at the expense of meagre benefits like WFP being the only thing I've ever received and only once - last winter. Labour can't keeping bemoaning the £22billion black hole left by the Tories when £9billion of that figure is of their making in awarding these pay rises. Stealing the WFP from 10million so pensioners like us saves only £1.2billion so expect to lose even more

Love the poem Doodledog - I think I'm going go memorise it !

Marg - do not worry about things unduly . Carry on as you are. All will be well.

Good advice from everyone on here to.

I agree, Luckygirl. Junior doctors have such a lot of merit and and benefit people so much that we need to retain their services even at the cost of paying them enough to meet their demands.

Lots of scaremongering from those parts of the media with a political axe to grind.

There was absolute sense in revisiting the winter fuel allowance - it could not possibly make sense for it to go to rich pensioners who have no need of it - a waste of public funds for sure. This is to be offset by honouring the triple lock on retirement pensions. Those in need will still get the fuel allowance. The problem of course is there will always be people on the margins of the cut-off points who will be cross about this - but the cut-off point (entitlement to Pension Credit) makes sense.

Given time I am sure that the government will be looking at all avenues to recoup revenue where it can - and this is what they should be doing.

I absolutely do not begrudge the junior doctors their pay rise - the situation was utterly immoral - doctors working ridiculously long hours to the detriment of their health and patient safety - they deserve every penny. If we do not try and keep up with decent salaries abroad we will simply lose them and the NHS will be even deeper in the mire. Until we are able to retain and recruit the doctors we cannot improve their working conditions - it is a vicious circle. Hopefully the pay rise will have helped to retain some who might otherwise have been lost.