Megachurches

Skye17 Sun 18-Jun-23 21:59:56 writes,

It's true that fewer people are ticking the 'Christian' box on the census form. But many of those who ticked it in the past were nominal Christians - Christians in name only, without a relationship with God, who rarely or never went to church.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
how do we know if whether God went to church ?
or if so, what kind ?

Love divine, all loves excelling

Finish then thy new creation, pure and spotless let us be
Let us see thy great salvation, Perfectly restored in ther.
Changed from glory into glory

That’s evangelism.

Wesley was thrown out of the Church of England for preaching it. But it’s a standard hymn now.

Popular large religious churches are not new.

Lathyrus

Perhaps worth remembering that the established church and those who worship on them have in the past disapproved of “popular” movement like Methodism and the Salvation Army.

And levelled the same criticisms of loud music, fervent preaching, stirring people up etc

True.

Evangelical churches often, but not always, have a 'happy-clappy' style of worship, with modern songs and instruments.

They do tend to be keener on evangelism than liberal churches.

Perhaps worth remembering that the established church and those who worship on them have in the past disapproved of “popular” movement like Methodism and the Salvation Army.

And levelled the same criticisms of loud music, fervent preaching, stirring people up etc

BTW, there is often confusion about evangelicalism and evangelism.

'Evangelical' - a person or church who:

- Puts emphasis on the Bible
- Puts emphasis on personal conversion and personal right living
www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/evangelical

'Evangelism' - spreading the good news ('evangelion' in Greek) about Jesus and how to be right with God. Trying to make new converts.
www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/evangelism

//it is fair to say that in the UK, the church is in decline.//

The older denominations (set up pre-1900) are in decline, but the newer ones are growing.

Screenshot from churchmodel.org.uk/2022/05/15/growth-decline-and-extinction-of-uk-churches/
(FIEC = Federation of Independent Evangelical Churches.)

All the newer, growing denominations are evangelical. Most of the declining ones are theologically liberal, or partly liberal, like the C of E. Within the partly-liberal denominations, the individual churches that are growing tend to be evangelical.

The situation is similar in the USA.
thefederalist.com/2018/01/22/new-harvard-research-says-u-s-christianity-not-shrinking-growing-stronger//

It's true that fewer people are ticking the 'Christian' box on the census form. But many of those who ticked it in the past were nominal Christians - Christians in name only, without a relationship with God, who rarely or never went to church.

I can appreciate what many people are saying about wanting to find peace in a quiet building, and to say a prayer either alone or in the context of a service, me too.
But the fact is that current congregations will not be able to finance the up-keep before long. My own church has drawn on its reserves since Covid, to pay its way.
So I can understand those who try to attract new / younger people, the church of the future. In my church, and others I know, it is not really working. Having a piano and a guitar instead of choir and organ, installing screens to use video, display new words etc- is that what is going to attract new people? I don’t know.

The big, usually city churches seem to be the only ones to attract young people, students, young city workers etc., but usually worshipping in a style which many of us would not enjoy, with lots of high tech, big music band etc.
The exception seems to be cathedrals, which attract people of all ages, often for the music.
There are no easy answers, but it is fair to say that in the UK, the church is in decline.
That doesn’t necessarily mean that people no longer believe or have no faith.

I went to a tiny church built for the community when I was growing up. In our village we have a small church that has an ever increasing local congregation.
I am not a religious person at all and have never heard of mega churches but it sounds like it’s gaining popularity. If it makes people happy and feel they belong to a larger community that’s good for them.

All depends what you want from a church.
I go to Mass once a week for peace and reflection. I want to sit on my own and say a few prayers and listen to the short sermon. I don’t speak to anyone, just a smile and I’m on my way.
The quiet and stillness in the cool church is just what I want.

If people want to attend church with two thousand other people at a megachurch then that is up to them. Christians believe that God knows us and knows what is in our hearts.

Whether we like the quiet, contemplative, traditional service, or the noisier evangelical type - it is what we believe through faith, and how we honour and respect Christ that really matters.

That’s most interesting and thanks for your post, Grundy. I used to go to an independent Baptist church based on the southern American model- the southern baptists were the sponsors. Everything was pretty black and white and women were never allowed to preach or even do the bible readings.We were supposed to dress up for church and the pastor actually told us it was disrespectful not to ! Anyway, I left and joined another church which actually didn’t care or mind what you wore and, shock horror, allowed guitars to play along with the hymns. Women play a big role in this church ( the pastor is a male which is fine, he is a good man and gives good messages). No oppressive atmosphere, just kindness and love.

Honestly I too thought megachurches were an American “thing” - perhaps they started here and spread? I have to read up on it.

I too found them off-putting as Allsorts stated, coupled with my suspicions of who is actually profiting off the collections.

I was baptized and raised Lutheran, but in marriage segued over to the Methodist church of my new family. Now, I no longer go to a church but practice my religion inwardly and quietly. I’m proud to be a Christian… we’re not perfect, just perfectly human.

Megachurches are rooted in Evangelism, for the most part. When I did attend one out of curiosity it felt very cult-like. They start calling you, visiting you, handing out their bible in pursuit of recruiting you into their congregation. No thank you!

Just yesterday news broke that the Southern Baptists voted to abolish all female pastors in leadership roles. (You can still be a secretary and answer phones…) Really? Well, that just goes to show you how they want to suppress the advancement of women.
Shame on you!
USA Gundy

Not into the many megachurches here in the States. Formerly a French Protestant, now an Episcopalian, part of the Anglican Communion, although usually in disgrace because of our very liberal stance on LBGT issues such as gay marriage and ordination.

Reminds me of this!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=70cPSEPH28I

Jesus He Knows Me

Genesis

Do you see the face on the TV screen
Coming' at you every Sunday?
See the face on the billboard?
Well, that man is me
On the cover of the magazine
There's no question why I'm smiling'
You buy a piece of paradise
You buy a piece of me
I'll get you everything you wanted
I'll get you everything you need
You don't need to believe in hereafter
Just believe in me
'Cause Jesus, He knows me and He knows I'm right
I've been talking' to Jesus all my life
Oh, yes He knows me and He knows I'm right
And He's been telling' me everything is alright
I believe in family
With my ever loving' wife beside me
But she don't know about my girlfriend
Or the man I met last night
Do you believe in God?
'Cause that's what I'm selling
And if you wanna go to heaven
Well, I'll see you right
You won't even have to leave your house
Or get out of your chair
You don't even have to touch that dial
'Cause I'm everywhere
And Jesus He knows me and He knows I'm right
I've been talking' to Jesus all my life
Oh, yes He knows me and He knows I'm right
Well, He's been telling' me everything's gonna be alright
Won't find me practicing' what I'm preaching'
Won't find me making' no sacrifice
But I can get you a pocketful of miracles
If you promise to be good, try to be nice
God will take good care of you
Well, just do as I say, don't do as I do
Well, I'm counting' my blessings
'Cause I've found true happiness
'Cause I'm getting' richer
Day by day
You can find me in the phone book
Just call my toll free number
You can do it anyway you want
Just do it right away
Well, there'll be no doubt in your mind
You'll believe everything I'm saying
If wanna get closer to Him
Get on your knees and start paying'
'Cause Jesus He knows me and He knows I'm right
I've been talking' to Jesus all my life
Oh, yes He knows me and He knows I'm right
Well, He's been telling' me everything's gonna be alright
'Cause Jesus He knows me and He knows I'm right
Ooh, yes He knows me and He knows I'm right
I've been talking' to Jesus all my life
And He's been telling' me everything's gonna be alright, alright
Jesus He knows me
Jesus He knows me, know
Jesus He knows me
Jesus He knows me, know
Jesus He knows me
Jesus He knows me, know

Source: Musixmatch

I don’t know about mega churches but where I live churches are springing up everywhere in ex bingo halls. banks, Cinemas , shops, in fact in any building that is empty. Lots of different names none of which I have ever heard of. I imagine they are of the evangelical variety. I don’t know aS I havnt been a church goer for many years .

Not exactly on topic but related, there’s a very good series called The Chosen , drama about the life of Jesus , it’s on amazon prime and YouTube plus there’s an app. I think it would appeal to many people whether religious or not .
Made me think anyhow !

I used to go to a church , which changed due to the influence of our new Pastor .

By the time I was a teenager -
I found
him overwhelming interfering and I felt uncomfortable at the way that he looked at me .

He seemed to dislike the church elders and enjoyed annoying them .

Traditional hymns were replaced by his youth group .

His sermons were long and intense verging on frightening and intimidating .

He seemed to enjoy mass hysteria .

He said that a member of the congregation spoke in tongues -in fact she was an epileptic and would fit during the service .

I left .
He was asked to leave .
I far prefer my church to be quiet , old , traditional and smelling of incense .

I love church architecture and stained glass windows and the beauty of an old church yard .

Why are megachurches popular? They aren’t my style, but I can think of some possible reasons:

- People like the music. Some lovely songs have come out of Hillsong (What a Beautiful Name, Another in the Fire)
- Lots of people your own age to socialise with (especially good for singles and families with children)
- Feeling part of something large and successful. There's a buzz
- Wide range of related activities, such as study courses, small groups, social activities like barbecues
- People like the service the churches give to their communities, such as food banks, debt recovery advice, help for the homeless. A large church has more resources and can be more effective in that way. There are opportunities to volunteer.

When people are assembled in a mass they are - like the Germans at the Nuremberg rallies - very susceptible to manipulation by the speaker. I think a lot of big top churches in the US are dubious.

biglouis

Any kind of organized religion makes me run a mile. I can see the attraction of small quiet country churches but these huge places seem so comercialised.

Yes, same here.

nanna8

Just watching a documentary on Hillsong, a mega church here in Australia. I was wondering why these churches are so popular, especially among the young. I don’t like them, personally, because there is too much razzamatazz for me and so many of them seem to end up with abuse both financial and emotional. I find them quite frightening but obviously many disagree and love them.

Sounds similar t any organised religion really, think of the mega riches in the catholic church and the abuse by priests.

They are a great place to meet other young people with similar values and are not new.

In my youth I found a few boyfriends at Methodist Central Hall and the cross-London Sunday evening gathering at All Souls Langham Place.

Ah, happy days😁

I’m not at all religious now.

I agree with you, grannyactivist! I used to belong to a lovely very well attended (CofE!) church for many years. It had really good links to the local community; ‘all faiths or none’ as you say in your post. I was actively involved and ran the tinies Sunday School group, and helped with holiday clubs, church camping trips (yes really-great fun!) and social activities. When I moved away I sadly found my local church to be old fashioned, poorly attended and not willing to move forward and embrace the new. So I now attend a local Free Church, which although it has a small congregation, is far more progressive without being overtly evangelical. Sad to say, I do think that the C of E has lost its way somewhat. I hope that this joke of an Archbishop of Canterbury will not hold his post for too much longer as I think that his ‘leadership’ is extremely poor at the best.

I’m completely at the other end of the spectrum and love a ‘house church’ where people of all faiths and none can come together and discuss Christianity. A simple meal, maybe some wine (other drinks are available 😁), along with respectful conversation, makes for a very lovely, and sometimes lively, evening.