70% of animals wiped out in 50 years

I’m a bit puzzled over the comment about India.

Are you really saying that countries like India shouldn’t have the same standard of living that the West has enjoyed.? Should be kept in poverty?

I know we disagree on a number of things. Actually I agree with some of your posts more often than you know.
So I think I must be misreading that.

It wouldn't though.

As a general observation...

We have a big problem in the world right now that people think the obvious solution is the one that will work. For example... Brexit will make this country great again because we don't have to bow to the French!.. Cut taxes, make the economy grow…... Reduce the population dramatically, save the rainforest!..

There are two options here, as far as I can see.

Cling to the unachievable goal that we reduce the population of the planet by 2/3. Or, work on achieving alternative ways of providing enough resources for the people we have. So...change the way we provide power for people, change the way we rely on certain foodstuffs, get clever about how we use the resources available to us.

That doesn't mean not trying to do something about overpopulation, it means being a bit realistic and not saying that we have to just give in because we have 3 times as many people as we can handle.

Unless you think we could do with another Black Death? Do you have a solution that would actually reduce the population by 2/3?? Note - it would have to happen in pretty short order if it's actually going to help.

I know I keep banging on about it but there was a documentary called The Serengeti Rules which showed that everything depends on keystone creatures and if they go everything goes with them. And it isn’t usually an apex ( is that the right word?) predator ( which it is in the case of wolves) but quite lowly things further down the food chain eg sea urchins. And when such things go the effect can be far reaching eg killer whales then move into different territories. From memory sea otters were disappearing because they were being eaten by predators that would usually leave them alone. Going back to the OP though, what right have we got to destroy this planet and everything that lives on it, Why can’t we use our intelligence and power to just do good things? I despair.

Lathyrus

I’m a bit puzzled over the comment about India.

Are you really saying that countries like India shouldn’t have the same standard of living that the West has enjoyed.? Should be kept in poverty?

I know we disagree on a number of things. Actually I agree with some of your posts more often than you know.
So I think I must be misreading that.

So I think I must be misreading that.

Yes, you are. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, sorry

What I was trying to say is that if every country had half the population is has at the moment (or even 1/3!) we still need the "kind" of life we have now, if nothing else changes. So we still need electricity, or beef, or lithium for mobile phones...

So just reducing the population doesn't hack it. We need to find new ways of meeting the needs of the population of the world that don't mean ravaging its resources unsustainably, whether there are 3 billion people or 9 billion people.

No, I don’t have a solution and yes I think it would take one of the horsemen of the Apocalypse to bring it about. So I know I’m on a hiding for nothing.

And I agree with all you’ve said about getting smarter in the way we use the resources that are left. It’ll stave off the inevitable for a while.

It’s just that as you think my solution (fewer people) isn’t practical, I don’t think the solution you propose is practical either in the long term.

My vision a planet with a sustainable human population is just a vision. Know it can’t be done.

And sorry, but so is yours, of a planet that can survive an increasing human population if only we get smarter.

Can we agree we need both our visions. Fewer people and smarter use of the resources they consume.

Now that really might make the difference ?

And sorry, but so is yours, of a planet that can survive an increasing human population if only we get smarter.

I don't think that's the answer either Lathyrus, I think we do agree more than either of us knows.

I'm just saying that relying on the assertion that all our problems are due to overpopulation is false. While it's obviously a factor, it does lead to the assumption that there's nothing we can do because there's just too many people and that's that. At the very least we have to do the other stuff (energy, foodstuffs etc). We're smart enough, we just need the impetus to do something instead of beating our breasts and saying all is lost...

I am not at all religious BUT If there were a God I can imagine him looking down and saying what the f**k have they done to that wonderful beautiful planet ?‍♀️..