Ghislaine Maxwell

And ? what ?

It's an odd thing to do isn't it Annie? If any of us had been abused by someone to the extent that we subsequently take court action against them, would we keep a photo of them?

Very odd Shep, she claims to have been raped by Andrew,
Ms.Maxwell and Epstein who took the photograph with her camera.

She gets married, has children yet keeps the photograph

Thank you, Saetana for an excellent post.

I don't understand how there can be fair trials in the States with all the posturing (on both sides) that is carried on pre-trial.

It is almost trial by media.

I am particularly glad that I would not have some members of Gransnet as jury members as I would already have been tried and convicted...

Anniebach

Very odd Shep, she claims to have been raped by Andrew,
Ms.Maxwell and Epstein who took the photograph with her camera.

She gets married, has children yet keeps the photograph

Giuffre had suffered throughout her childhood from severe abuse and neglect. She was poor with an extremely low level of self regard.

She was already a victim when Maxwell identified her as a possible sexual tool. She was promised money and education initially and if you gave time to listening to her life experience or understood the relationship that develops between abuser and abused, you would never have posted or speculated as you have.

Candelle

Thank you, Saetana for an excellent post.

I don't understand how there can be fair trials in the States with all the posturing (on both sides) that is carried on pre-trial.

It is almost trial by media.

I am particularly glad that I would not have some members of Gransnet as jury members as I would already have been tried and convicted...

Are you a procurer and sex trafficker then?

But wwm none of what you say explains why she would keep photos of the people she now claims abused her. I can’t understand why anyone would do that.

Germanshepherdsmum

But wwm none of what you say explains why she would keep photos of the people she now claims abused her. I can’t understand why anyone would do that.

Unless you ask her you will never know, but a psychologist would undoubtedly be able to explain this sort of behaviour. Stockholm syndrome is of course the extreme form of this behaviour, so you may well speculate as to the victims motive.

However, I am entirely unclear why this is being used as mitigation against the charges.

Germanshepherdsmum

But wwm none of what you say explains why she would keep photos of the people she now claims abused her. I can’t understand why anyone would do that.

Unless you ask her you will never know, but a psychologist would undoubtedly be able to explain this sort of behaviour. Stockholm syndrome is of course the extreme form of this behaviour, so you may well speculate as to the victims motive.

However, I am entirely unclear why this is being used as mitigation against the charges.

Cossy

Innocent or guilty all prisons should treat its inmates with respect, prison conditions differ across states because of their legal system and “beliefs” I lived on the West Coast in California, a very different lifestyle to living in the South. Everyone deserves a “fair” trial but sadly the richer you are the better lawyer and legal team you will have, look at OJ. Whether this lady is guilty or not, she did have a very close relationship with Epstein and I just find it very hard to believe she didn’t know what was going on. Yes, she’s having an awful time currently, nothing compared to the lives of many girls Epstein ruined.

Please don't call them ruined. VG doesn't look ruined, she seems to be happily married, has children, is attractive and articulate. She is not ruined. It sounds like some Victorian judgement on a woman who loses her virginity outside marriage.

Of course she may have been very proud to have had a photo of herself with Prince Andrew, then decided he might make a good cash cow. How very handy that the much prized photo was kept.

Whitewavemark2

Candelle

Thank you, Saetana for an excellent post.

I don't understand how there can be fair trials in the States with all the posturing (on both sides) that is carried on pre-trial.

It is almost trial by media.

I am particularly glad that I would not have some members of Gransnet as jury members as I would already have been tried and convicted...

Are you a procurer and sex trafficker then?

Only on Sundays.

I am entirely unclear why this is being used as mitigation against the charges.

Asking a question or wondering out loud about the oddness of something is not "using it as mitigation". It is asking/wondering. Stop putting people in the wrong, wwm2.

Whitewavemark2

I just hate unfairness.

Well said Baggs.

By the by, I have just been reading of pre-trial arguments in the States between lawyers over whether the fact that someone who shot and killed 14 students, three teachers and wounded 17 other people, was wearing a maroon or burgundy shirt (as was described by a witness).

They are trying to discredit this witness' account of the shooting.

I ask you?!

I hope that we never this type of despicable behaviour in the UK.

They all look happy on the photo too. Very odd

Baggs

*I am entirely unclear why this is being used as mitigation against the charges.*

Asking a question or wondering out loud about the oddness of something is not "using it as mitigation". It is asking/wondering. Stop putting people in the wrong, wwm2.

It isn’t putting anyone in the wrong, it is a perfectly legitimate question.

I think so to 25Avelon anyone can smile for the camera but she had been raped by the man standing next to her and her eyes are sparkling , this causes me to doubt , not doubt he slept with her but she was forced to have sex with him

I think she kept the photograph because it was with a Prince

My thoughts exactly Annie.

Anyone given a thought to the other 50+ victims willing to come forward. Focusing on one victim because of her high profile in the media is not particularly balanced.

Perhaps we should wait to see what they have to say and how credible it is?

I think that it will be very credible, given what we have heard from the police investigating and subsequently the FBI.

Epstein was convicted on their testament, so they were found credible by the jury at that time. Not sure why their credibility will now be in doubt.

Maxwell was not brought in at that time because of the deal done by Epstein.

Did Andrew rape 50+victims and why isn’t Bill Clinton being sued

Anniebach

Did Andrew rape 50+victims and why isn’t Bill Clinton being sued

We have no idea who if any of the victims apart from Guiffre are going to name Windsor, neither do we know if Clinton will be named. But don’t forget we are talking about Maxwell and not the case being brought by Guiffre.

I suspect not because this has been made entirely clear by the Judge that this case is concerning the conviction of Maxwell over procurement and sex trafficking.