Believing in Biological Sex - a Sacking Offence

There are cis men and cis women. It isn't only women. This isn't a patriarchal plot.

I suggested further up a move towards separate secure toilets and changing areas as a solution. That's not what I was quoted for though FarNorth

Men can be men in their own right, but women (cis or trans) are defined as what they are not.

The prefix 'cis' is intended to mean someone who is not trans. So it also defines us only in relation to something else.

Alexa the nurse who gave my mother the very best care when she was in hospital was a good looking young man. He was the kindest, most thoughtful and most effective member of staff. My mother was happy to be showered and cared for by him. The worst member of staff who was very abrupt and very domineering was a woman. I don't think gender plays any part in ability any longer.
I do wish people would read the judgement. It is patently obvious that had she shown any appreciation of the complexities of sexual identity and not insisted that there are and only can be 2 sexes the result might have been different. Scientific evidence was a main part of the enquiry.

I suggest that they make a big stink about wanting rights for themselves that don't impinge on the rights of women.

What did women do when we wanted the vote? Made a big stink till they got it. Now we have another oppressed people making a stink because they want equality and women, women who know what it is like more than most to be treated as less than, are against it? So what do you want from them? They aren't going to go away for your comfort I'm afraid. They can't change how they feel the same way people can't change their sexual preference. They are who they are. What do you suggest to resolve the issue?

Alexa but what if some of those "big breasted women becoming engineers or pilots" are actually males who now wish everyone to believe they are females?

I am happy for them to present themselves any way they like, but they are not female.

This is a picture of Gregor Murray, the trans person whom Maya Forstater 'misgendered', on Twitter and not in her workplace.

Gregor Murray identifies as non-binary and wishes to be referred to as 'they/them'.

Here is a newspaper article about Gregor Murray thinking it was all right to refer to a woman as a c**t.

www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/fp/woman-who-received-abuse-from-dundee-councillor-gregor-murray-speaks-out/

Petunia wrote:

"How can we make decisions on Gender Recognition and the safety of women and children when we don't agree on what gender is or even what biological sex is."

So far the most successful ways to promote gender tolerance are for people to have unexpected gender roles, such as big handsome men becoming nurses, or big breasted women becoming engineers or pilots.

These relatively unaccustomed gender roles can be promoted through film plays and popular literature.

No one has the right to impose their views on others, especially in the work place where people spend a great deal of their time.

Trans people have put a great deal of effort into ensuring that their views are imposed on others, in the workplace and everywhere else.
We are now all supposed to believe that a trans person has genuinely changed sex and we must not say anything to the contrary, as this legal case has shown.

We've had this argument before. It isn't just as simple as some seem to think. Women athletes with high levels of testosterone are being penalised because they present as un-feminine www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/sports/caster-semenya-loses.html

May I also add, just to get away from toilets and changing rooms, if we are talking about the significance of sex differences, we should be clear what advantages or disadvantages these differences bring.

So for example sport. A male is generally taller, stronger, more muscular and has had the benefit of having passed through male puberty. Even if drugs are taken to reduce testosterone, much of the advantage remains. Is it then fair that that individual can run a race alongside females.

If its not fair then males should not compete with females. Even if that person states they are female and wears feminine clothing and make up. Its like putting a heavyweight boxer in with a feather weight and telling the feather weight they didn't win because they just weren't good enough

If its fair then women's sport might as well pack up and leave now. There is no future if women are told that they must compete against an athlete who retains male advantage.

not the times but i found this
www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

Google mixed sex facilities the times and you will find it. I imagine the discrepancy was due to the colour of the walls, or their geographical location rather than the presence of people with penis.

Gransnet posters wishing to catch up on what is going on with TRAs, AGPs, self identity etc. log on to Mumsnet. The FWR section has been following this issue for years now and there is a wealth of info on there. I am honestly shocked that it has taken Gransnetters so long to see this as an issue - seems only in the last few months that there have been threads on it.

It was a times article which described the difference between number of assaults in unisex changing rooms compared to single sex in 2017 - 2018. 14 in single sex. I cant imagine why there was such a discrepancy.

Link to where you found the info about 120 women being assaulted please Galaxy? Because otherwise, it is an unsubstantiated comment.

This threat doesn't come from trans people for the most part, it comes from men in the majority of cases. Men taking advantage of poor layout and security or lying about their gender. The solution is to have individual secure changing spaces and toilets, and this should be implimented where possible and mandatory in new builds. That way no-one has to share a space with a dangerous person who could be absolutely anyone really x

Yes mock women who have been raped or abused who would find getting changed with men terrifying. The lack of empathy is astounding.
Yes I have read the judgement, he is not a colleague he is an arsehole on twitter who calls women cunts, who she accidentally forgot to call they.
120 women assaulted in mixed sex changing rooms and people are making jokes about bending down. They should be made to tell those jokes to each one of those women. Utter misogyny.

Don't bend down with your back to the mirror is the key there Yennifer!

Galaxy have you read the judgement? The claimant says that she admits misgendering Murray and that she refused to use 'they'. That is expressed in the judgement along with her refusal to accept scientific evidence about conditions which impact on sex, preferring to maintain her belief that everyone is either male or female and that is unchangeable.

Lol! I have also never seen a vagina in a changing room.

Dunno where you shop Galaxy. I've never seen a penis in M&S before.

Why is it putting women on a pedestal to say they should not have to get changed with people with a penis.

Feminism for me is equality, not putting women on a pedestal!