Believing in Biological Sex - a Sacking Offence

Trisher, it is you who is trying to defy science. Science shows that in humans there are only two sexes plus a small number of intersex people and intersex people are not the same as trans people.

GagaJo: And yes, Chestnut, some people DO change. Why is that a problem? For the first 30 years of my life I regarded myself as heterosexual. Then I 'discovered' I was a lesbian.
Firstly, I was referring to people who change gender daily, one day male and the next day female as if it were a game. Not someone who changes just once or maybe twice in their lifetime. I never said it was a problem. I never said it affected me, both of which which you stated. But I think most people would find changing gender on a daily basis hard to understand.

Nik I'm glad someone else has a problem with "they".

Really gets my inner pedant twitching!

It's really common though. We use it where I work, as in;

".your appointment is with Oldgimmer at 3pm. To contact THEM, please do so blah blah.." Horrible.

Is it possible to permanently Change XY Chromosomes to XX and vice.versa?
If not then you will never change your birth sex. However, hormone/chemical disturbances can apparently affect gender perception. I have always said there were 50 shades of humanity and these differences are expressed no matter which culture, race or religion we belong to. What I find challenging is a persons need to change their given body for them to fit in to their perception, surely we should find some way of acceptance of the psychological differences whilst retaining the given body.

I agree with Joelsnan. we should be finding ways to be more inclusive of people being different in so many ways and not slotting into easy boxes.

But i am feeling very resistant to being told to change a word for the sake of a few people's feelings....
I am still feeling it is a huge over reaction to sack someone for using a word in a personal tweet.
She didn't put out her thoughts until she was taken to court.
scary stuff

Pettunia I share your concerns about pressure on children.

UntilI was in my early teens I wanted to be a boy, I was, anyway a tomboy out playing rough tough runing and other games with the boys. If anyone had asked me or offered me the opportunity to be a boy, I would have jumped at it.

With puberty I settled quite happily into being a girl. Still active and still with a male prefernces, I studied economics at university, still a mainly male discipline, and spent most of my working life working for engineering companies. usually the only woman above clerical level - and felt comfortable in a mainly male environment.

But I am so glad I was never offered the opportunity to be male. I just adjusted to what I was masculine in mind and female in body. and I am sure I have had a happier life because of it.

I tend to go by appearances and believe what I'm told

What an innocent soul you must be, trisher.

Well what would you do Farnorth? Ask every new woman you meet if they are smuggling a penis? lol

That's very transphobic of you Yennifer, are you saying people with a penis arent women,?

Oh you are one of those who like to turn things round on people in a high and mighty way Galaxy. Interesting personality trait x

No answer as ever. Always the same. I asked you a question - its not high and mighty to ask people who are prepared to remove womens spaces whether women can have a penis.

You already know my thoughts on the subject, you aren't entitled to have silly questions answered

Galaxy It depends on whether the person concerned was born with it or acquired it later. You cannot change your biological gender, mental gender is something else.

The reason I carry on with this is there a lot of people who are new to this subject. They will be silently reading and taking it all in. They will see that it is now considered a silly question to ask whether a woman can have a penis. And so we carry on, as every time someone reads this and thinks hang on, then we are a step closer to real discussion of womens rights.

People can and do choose their own gender or choose not to have one at all and that is absolutely fine by me. People are transitioning or fully transitioned from both directions. Not going to ask them where they started, I will deal with how they identify now. There are trans people already living in their chosen gender and have been for quite some time. It's a discussion now why? Because men have taken advantage of that to hurt women? Why blame trans people for that?

These sorts of discussions are important but difficult because obviously there will be transphobes and bigots against trans people entering "female" spaces too. To my mind, trans people are individuals and should be treated as such, just as I would like to be. My gender doesn't define me. Just give people separate secure cubicles everywhere so everyone can be safe and comfortable.

Galaxy you say when I ask how on earth am I to know whether someone is a woman of not.
And then you start demanding answers from others about penises (should that be penii?) Is this fair?
The discussion about women's rights has been going on since the 70s (Spare Rib anyone?) and things have moved on, but I realise there are some who are new to the subject. Just as there are some who are obsessed with gender and trans issues while other aspects of patriachy escape their notice. Personally I am informed and encouraged by my younger friends some of whom embrace the concept of binary, some of whom are fightng for equal treatment for menstruation and menopause, some of whom are active in other areas. All of whom denounce intolerance and prejudice as echoes of patriachy which feminists should have no part in no matter who is promoting it.

Trisher do you understand how patronising you sound. Words fail me. I have been involved in this discussion for years as have numerous other women. And it is always the same no one is ever able to say what a woman is if it is not based on biology. Ever. Not once. You are not the only person to know young people trisher, for example many of us are supporting the young lesbians who are currently describing the trauma they went through with regard to detransitioning. They are raising concerns that transitioning is being offered to young women who have experienced abuse or are unhappy with their bodies, etc. They are very clear that they were lied go about changing sex. Or do only do only some young peoples views count.

Terrible phone fingers

There is no definition of a woman. We are all very very different. If you are defining women by their sexual organs, well that's what we have been fighting for men not to do. Now we want to do it to each other?

Which sex commits 97 % of violent crime Jennifer?
How do you define those 97 %.

My phone is determined to change yennifer into Jennifer.

No more patronising than someone who demands answers, hasn't any herself, but projects a lot of hate and criticism at people. If you are supporting lesbians I think that is great. I am struggling to understand why a lesbian would need to detransition? Are you perhaps confusing two things? I'm very sorry for people who are lied to or who suffer in any way, but it doesn't help them to condemn or castigate others. Feminism is about inclusivity and tolerance and not about dividing and seeking to blame one section of people. You are perfectly entitled to your brand of feminism but don't imagine that we will all adopt your prejudices.It smacks too much of patriachy for me.

Sorry violent sexual crime that should say.

Yennifer, and Arseholes mostly as I would define any abusive person no matter who they are.

At the end of the day, anyone who is campaigning for some people to be excluded rather than looking for ways to include everyone in a safe and comfortable way is just interested in causing problems rather than looking for solutions.