grandparents rights to meet their grandkids

Why would a parent have to pay legal fees if they don't want to? Surely they can speak for themselves. I think you have to pay for mediation but presumably the people who ask for that would pay for it?

Perhaps because they are being sued for “visitation” time?
You can bet that had anyone sued me for time with my children, I’d have paid all the money to fight it.

I strongly disagree that grandparents should have “rights”.

You may see childrens court as a GP Vs Parents battle ground with a victor

I see it as a trauma to the child.

If there is familial estrangement, yes that is a trauma, courts and court orders in top of that is just adding more trauma to traumas.

No happy endings to be found. Not for the child anyway.

The reason you think Im not seeing the GPs "side" is because my view is that it is not about which adults side you think is right/wrong. It is about the affect of court orders on children

I am not discussing this any more, its not going anywhere.

I believe in the goodness of most people and will continue to do so. I don't believe GPs are as bad as you do.

It is not my opinion Nonnie! A court ordered visit cannot just be cancelled if the child is upset/under the weather/on their first period etc....

That is the factual reality

notanan2 Tue 20-Aug-19 17:29:28 I had read it, I just don't agree with you.

I cannot accept that the process has to damage the child, not it both parent and GPs are reasonable people.

I think something bad must have happened to you to make you so adamant and not to see another side to the discussion. Whatever it is I am sorry as it seems to have affected you so much.

Why would a parent have to pay legal fees if they don't want to? Surely they can speak for themselves

Its never a good idea to self represent most people know this.

Why wouldn't a GP rearrange?
The.only.way.to.re-arrange.or.re-negotiate.a.court.order.is.to.go.back.to.court!

Read the above twice. Please!

It is not about which adult is good or bad. The process is damaging to the child.

notanan2 Tue 20-Aug-19 16:18:35 How do you know that? Why wouldn't a GP rearrange? How do you know what motivates the GPs who go to court? Do you really believe that the parent is always blameless? Do you believe that all GPs are bad people? I don't believe either.

Another case where it was thrown out of court as to could not provide thr burden of proof.
GP, not to

I know of a case where the mediator said it was not the best interest for the child

Another case where it was thrown out of court as to could not provide thr burden of proof.

Another case where grandma went for rights after several years of ignoring the gc. She lost

Another case where grandma wanted rights for baby only, not older siblings. She lost

Another case where grandma wanted rights to the gc and LO was not even born yet. Didn't even reach court or mediation and ended with protective orders

Another case where grandparents wanted guardianship of kids as both parents were addicts and neglected their kids. They won

A grandma won visitation with the gc but complained to the judge it was not enough. She wanted a full month in summer, Xmas,, spring break and overnight weekend visits.
Judge revoked what was originally granted and warned her not to use the law again to force grandma's hand.

notanan2 Tue 20-Aug-19 15:48:43 & notanan2 Tue 20-Aug-19 15:51:15 I just don't understand where you are coming from. Do you really think a court would suggest the children go to the GPs for Christmas? Do you really think a GP would not try to accommodate the children's activities? I don't know any like that. We must mix in different circles.

Why would a parent have to pay legal fees if they don't want to? Surely they can speak for themselves. I think you have to pay for mediation but presumably the people who ask for that would pay for it?

With court contact the parents dont get to ring up and say "little Billy has had a really rough week, we best give this visit a miss and rearrange"

Court orders dont work like that.
And GPs who go down the court route care less about that than they do about their contact

not everything is about money

Maybe not for the GPs, but it is for a resident parent with children to support! Its the parents who have to say no to trips and hobbies becausr there are legal fees being forced upon them.

The GPs inflict the cost on BOTH PARTIES

"3. What happens if the parents split up? And what happens as your GC gets older? Are you going to deny them Christmas with family, opportunities for camping, sports activities, birthday parties for friends, even part-time work because you want to insist on "your time"?" Why would a GP do that? Most GPs love their GC and have their best interest at heart. Surely if the GC wanted to do something the GP would understand?

Nonnie
Once contact is court ordered the parents can face JAIL if it doesnt happen. The recieving party can fail to show up to handover without penalty, but the parents still have to bring the child by order of court

With court ordered contact, there is no discussion/negotiation. The only way to change the order is to go back to court!

My mother shopped and helped out both her mother and her mil . Mil ( housebound)wanted me to spend time with her every Saturday while my mother was doing the shopping.
One afternoon she told me that my father had been widowed and married my mother because he needed a housekeeper. I was about 10 . I never went back. She kept asking for me and my mother couldn't understand why I wouldn't visit. I told my mother who was a wonderful grandmother not long before dm died when we were talking about families.children should choose who they say. They are not stupid.

Giving gp rights to the grandkids creates the "too many cooks in the kitchen" effect

Who has decision and veto power on how the grandchild spends the time? What if the parents say yes and grandma says no? Who wins here?

Wanting to have a relationship with GC bypassing the parents is disrespectful. Parents are not a means to an end.
First solve the issues you have with your adult offspring and your relationship with the gc will follow

There seem to be a lot of people on here who think that GPs are often a negative part of the GC's life but I have never seen that. I only know GPs who do their best to help and support. My Dil's mum is wonderful to me GCs and so are many of my friends. There doesn't seem to be much acknowledgement of shamene's situation where the AC is stopping the children seeing their GP out of spite without a thought for how the children feel.

agnurse "2. If you go to court, that costs money - for you and the parents. That's money that isn't available for after school activities, family activities, etc. Worst case scenario, that's food coming out of your GC's mouth. Is that right?" I cannot imagine a scenario where a GP would go to court thinking of the cost. If the parent felt so strongly that the GP was bad for the child surely they would be prepared to go to mediation? If that failed then they could defend themselves in court. Not everything is about money.

"3. What happens if the parents split up? And what happens as your GC gets older? Are you going to deny them Christmas with family, opportunities for camping, sports activities, birthday parties for friends, even part-time work because you want to insist on "your time"?" Why would a GP do that? Most GPs love their GC and have their best interest at heart. Surely if the GC wanted to do something the GP would understand? I simply don't recognise any of these awful GPs who are out to hurt their GC and be uncooperative.

It is simply cruel to deny a child who has a good relationship with their GP contact. Why would any loving parent do that?

I personally don't think grandparents should have any automatic rights.

You've had your days as parents and whether you agree or disagree with it, it's your GC parents who decided what goes on with them.

It's sad, sometimes it's unfair but that's how it is.

If grandparents have rights, then soon, aunts and uncles will want them, then cousins, it will never stop.

As children get older, approaching adolescence, they may not want to spend time with grandparents. The more activities and homework they have, the more precious their free time. Would this law mean that they would be forced to spend a fixed amount of time with oldies who bore them stupid?

Yes, I am aware that even teenagers can and do enjoy visiting grandparents, but that would inevitably change with an element of compulsion.

It's a very difficult situation.
Even if a child wants to have contact with GPs, that could result in a lot of awkwardness for the child if the parents are against the idea (for bad reason or good).

Not all grandparents adore their grandchildren. Quite a number of those on crusades to force their children to give access to grandchildren it is part of a continuing power game.

We hear enough stories on GN from desperate AC with parents that constantly interfere in their family, try and control their children and grandchildren. There is such a thread running at present.

Of course there are hard cases, but I am doubtful about the motives of any grandparent taking their child to court to force access to their grandchildren.

Once my child becomes an adult I lose all legal rights over them. Quite rightly.

Why then should I be able to have "rights" over their offspring. It makes no sense to me.

Of course we would wish all children to have as much love and suppport as possible. But sometimes life just isn't like that.

If for some reason a grandparent has fallen out with their own child then that relationship needs to be mended. It is wrong to use a child to force the issue.

There can be 4 sets of grandparents if they dont come in married pairs. How much of the child should be divvied up so they all get their "rights" OP?

And what about aunts and uncles and cousins.. they have a "right" to a piece of the child too?

They are extended family

Some (not all!) extended family members for sure enhance a childs life. But the types who think they should have a "right" to the child are exactly the types who need to be kept at arms length!