Referendum

You may well be right about some of themhumpty but what is the point of coming on a discussion forum if you are not going to answer a question put to you directly? If some Leavers cannot answer or, in one case, only make infantile insulting comments, it gives their cause a bad name.

The BBC only seem to interview workers who want to leave but can't give logical reasons so it is easy to understand why some suggest they are less intelligent. I'm sure if they tried they could find some working people who could express themselves better. I've been very disappointed by the BBCs coverage of ordinary people.

We are answering the OP!
We have had endless threads of debate /discussion/flying insults on why we voted as we did for the past two years.

Okay Nonnie seeing as you don’t seem to understand Leaving the EU. We have already had a vote. It would be undemocratic to have another one. Don’t quite agree with what you say about now knowing the full facts, as people like you will always find an excuse about not knowing the facts, if it furthers your own ideals. Apparently, also it is not the vote that is forever but leaving the EU which is forever, , ehmm the vote decides whether we stay or leave! You have the absolute nerve to say it is me who does not believe in democracy, I voted to Remain in the original vote, the country voted to Leave! I accept the result, you do not, but I am the undemocratic one?? You apparently think that because* “the DEMOCRATIC VOTE, did not go the way you wanted it was not Democratic?? Please realise that DEMOCRACY does not mean “agree with Nonnie”. The country has already voted (democratically) to leave.
Think it was 3 Pro’s for leaving -
1) Britain would have more control over it’s Laws and Regulations.
2) We would benefit from greater border control for Britain’s domestic security
3) The EU prevents us signing our own deals with allies such as Australia and New Zealand and other emerging nations.
4) Better immigration control between EU countries.
That’s 4.

Chucky, you clearly don't understand the principles of rational debate with all that shouting. You are not interesting, you don't listen and you are blinkered so I will no longer engage with you. I have far better things to do with my time and am fortunate to have plenty of intelligent people to talk to.

Yes, but with the assurance the vote result,whatever it was, would be implemented.

Australia and New Zealand are not emerging nations

We preferred to trade with the EU and discarded a lot of our trade with them so they have found new markets.

And have formed their own trading blocs.

Hi Daddima,

Can you give me a link for those figures please as they are far from the ones I have:

The UK's EU membership fee

The UK pays more into the EU budget than it gets back.

In 2017 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion.

Each year the UK gets a discount on its contributions to the EU—the ‘rebate’—worth about £5.6 billion last year. Without it the UK would have been liable for £18.6 billion in contributions.

The UK is the third largest contributor to the EU Budget.

fullfact.org/media/uploads/EU_budget_contributions_uV8vFzQ.png

I took the picture from the Twitters, but it refers you to this;

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517415/treasury_analysis_economic_impact_of_eu_membership_web.pdf

I remain a remainer!

Leave before and would definitely vote leave again! Nothing has changed my mind whatsoever, it has just reinforced my original decision to vote leave was definitely the right one.

Hi Daddima

Thank you so much for the link which I have looked at. As has been pointed out, it is from 2014 and signed by George Osborne, former chief EU scaremonger.

The graphic posted is definitely not from this report and I suspect has been 'mocked up' to cause mischief.

This report clearly states the the UK is a net contributor and, in 2014, made a net contribution of £7.1 billion.

In 2018, this had increased to almost £9 billion.

I'd still vote leave with even more conviction as I now are certain the EU leaders only see Britain as a cash cow

Bye then Nonnie.
I am NOT shouting, just highlighting the facts. YOU are the one who is ignoring democracy!
You no longer wish to engage with me. Is that because I have highlighted some of the reasons that make Leaving the EU a reasonable idea. Remember, I voted to remain but accepted that leave won the vote. You voted remain but do not accept that leave won the vote. Which of us believes in democracy?
I didn’t want to leave at the time but with all that has happened I think there is now no other option.
Rather than be like you, and NOT accept a democratic vote, because YOU disagree with the outcome, I prefer to look forward for any advantages. The sooner we are out, and can get on with living our lives outside the EU the better.

This report clearly states the the UK is a net contributor and, in 2014, made a net contribution of £7.1 billion.

You are completely missing the point of the graphic, Lynn

We are all well aware that the UK contributes more to the EU than it apparently gets out. What the graphic is pointing out is that for what we put in we get considerably more back in export income. if you read the report it gives some figures from research on how trade increases by membership of a trading bloc and through Free Trade Agreements.

signed by George Osborne, former chief EU scaremonger.

What a ridiculous remark. He was Chancellor of the Exchequer at the time. He didn't actually write the damn thing, the Treasury civil servants did that. Civil servants, supposedly chosen from among the brightest and best. Examining the evidence and drawing conclusions. Conclusions which have not been proved to be wrong.

If you want to be taken seriously in debate you might at least try for a bit of objectivity and not indulge in meaningless emotive statements.

I suppose part of the issue, as has been pointed out on several occasions, is that UK is a Parliamentary democracy not a plebicite democracy. Any UK referendum should have been advisory to inform our democratically elected representatives. That is how it is supposed to work. As approx 1/3 electorate failed to vote, approx 1/3 wanted to leave and the final almost 1/3 wanted to remain it was not a landslide result giving a clear guide to parliament. Certainly not enough to initiate a withdrawal.

DH was working down south last week. As he went about his work, mixing with other people and listening in restaurants and bars, he was horrified at the depth of feeling he overheard re brexit. These were pro brexit comments. At one point in the canteen irate workmen were talking of revolution against Westminster if the country doesn't leave the EU. It was worrying. These were not old people and they had voted.
Perhaps Theresa is well aware of this strength of feeling among the non Westminster Liberal types which is why she can't rule out a hard brexit.
Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Stupid government to have made unrealistic " promises" like parents trying to appease children with the promise of a new bike etc that they can ill afford. It can build resentment. The same angry brexiteers will be angry when we leave and we are not the land of perfection they imagine. I heard one such person on TV.." we should just do it. It will be hard for a few years but better than being controlled" ? He really had no idea what " being hard" might look like. Jumping off a cliff with something strapped to your back..might be bricks or an old dodgy parachute..but not a micro light glider that's for sure

If you listen to this at the very beginning and again at 18 minutes you may well wonder:

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000222n

Listen to the whole thing if you have time it was interesting.

Hi Maizie,

I don't recall saying that George Osborne actually wrote the report but, in my world, you sign it you take responsibility for it.

This 2014 report and its data has now been discredited so probably not worth discussing in 2018.

I hope you agree.

Press report below but lots more if you Google.

A year ago today, the then Chancellor George Osborne published a controversial 'Treasury analysis' of the risks of Brexit, claiming that quitting the EU would leave every family £4,300 worse off.

Mr Osborne predicted an 'immediate' recession, with the Treasury suggesting half a million people would be thrown out of work.

But although the former Chancellor quickly lost his Cabinet job in the wake of the referendum vote, unemployment has fallen and the British economy has powered ahead of most of its EU rivals.

A new analysis by the Change Britain think tank today finds that just one in 10 of the gloomy warnings issued by Mr Osborne, David Cameron and other Government figures at the heart of the Remain campaign have turned out to be correct.

In a report today, the organisation analyses 19 key claims made by the Government in the run-up to the referendum in June last year.

Of these, just two have been borne out by subsequent events. By contrast, seven have already proved to be false, with a further seven 'likely to be false'. The remaining three are judged to be only 'partially true'.

lynne1 can you explain why the value of the £ has dropped by 20% since the vote? That might explain why exports are going well but imports must have been badly hit.

It is beyond me how we can accept any predictions because there is no previous situation to compare Brexit with. However I think it is sensible to try to anticipate the likely outcome. The trouble with statistics is that any of us who wants to spend the time on Google can probably find ones which suit our particular argument.

So our economy is doing so well. House prices are falling not increasing and the pound has fallen in value. Research at ourUniversities is already closing down as they won't get funding in 2020. But no matter there is no economic crisis and Brexit isn't a problem- some live in cloud cuckoo land!

Nonnie sorry to repeat your post but it took me time to get the graph!

trisher feel free, at least you read it.