Why do they need to know?

Thanks MOnica.

My problem with this (objection is too strong a word) is that it feels like people are being viewed by their ethnicity, gender etc. I think you could put me in a group of "Don't ask - don't care".

Charity sectors struggle with funding. Lots of work making an application. Then AFTER they receive and use the money they have to do lots more work reporting every way etc it was used.it can be tortuous. It's bureaucracy at every level .
No jump through hoops - no money

No need to answer oldwoman70, there’s absolutely no need to answer those questions. Often on those kind of forms there’s a box to tick which says ‘ I don’t want to answer’ or something like that, but if there isn’t such a box, just maybe they’re thinking in devising the form that way would make people feel obliged to answer these questions. Not to worry, there’s no legal obligation to answer, though they may be a legal obligation to include the questions. Leave them blank, or if you’re feeling mischievous, tick them all ????

Ha ha ha, witzend, I like your option MYOB, make me laugh, of course we could always actually write that couldn’t we? In fact I think MYOB..B would be better, if you get my meaning ???

cheeky lot aren't they

We had to ask the same questions at the Citizens Advice Bureau when clients first came to us. Kittylester and Riverwalk are both correct. The funding for the charity depends on them submitting diversity questionnaires. So answering the questions indirectly helps the charity, but is not compulsory.

Of course this does not answer the question of why the government wants to know...

Ever since I saw a documentary on Hitler and the pre-war information gathering census I have had a fear of giving out personal details to nosy officialdom. Due to the facts obtained in the census he knew exactly where to find the victims of his terrible Final Solution and why would a successful wealthy person or a disabled person or a diverse ethnic or sexual person refuse to give their personal details in cultured, civilised Europe? None of them knew the appalling fate which awaited them so why would they not just fill in the forms as required? It's not at all a question of having nothing to fear if there's nothing to hide more that in the future who knows what criteria will be used for God knows what purpose - even though I'll probably be long dead by then!

And how many religious and ethnic minorities are put off applying when they get to that question because they are highly offended by it? Would a strict Christian, Moslem or Jew really want to be asked what their sexual orientation is? I think the question itself slews the statistics.

I just put 'prefer not to answer' for most of those questions. I NEVER answer the ethnicity questions. It is a ludicrous tick-box exercise, and I do not believe the data is used to improve reach. Some well-known organisations (no names, but I have read their annual reports) have been doing it for decades and still haven't widened their reach.

I once attempted to buy some knickers after seeing them advertised in the press. They were the right brand, right colour, right price and right size so what could go wrong?
My cheque was returned saying that the order box had not been filled in completely
The missing feature was my age. I replied saying that my age in no way could indicate the size of knickers required and so I chose to leave that box blank. The firm refused to serve me.
They obviously required my DOB in order to sell my details on. My son said I should have lied as everybody else did
The local lingerie shop had closed so I did without my Sloggis

Oldwoman70 crikey!! I feel inclined to say I'm too old to know what these are. But then my pride would stop me, we are all very well informed and intelligent despite our age, indeed probably we know more than younger people because we are older.

I suppose ignoring them is the only way, but I really think it's going too far and I would like to make some kind of statement.

Surely, for people looking for things to do after retirement age, these questions are irrelevant? Also, aren't they somewhat intrusive? Who has the right to know about things such as "transgender"? I would have thought that a trans person would simply say the gender they are, and not need to put on a form the "trans" bit or explain that an accident of birth called them another gender. Why can't they, as one example, just be an older person looking for things to do? It really seems intrusive to me. I don't accept the answer that they are just collecting data to see if they are addressing the needs of all sections of the community. That does not make sense, because how do they know the numbers in each group that there are in the community? I do not see the point of the questions except for unnecessary and prurient intrusion into people's lives.

NfkDumpling You are completely right.

My previous profession relied on good statistical evidence. A knowledge of Statistics as a subject in itself was required in my degree. I remember "reporting bias" being a hugely important feature. Your examples are very good. There are probably very many others, including all those where people misunderstood the form or filled it in wrongly.

I am really very dubious about this kind of data collection, mainly done by Councils who do not understand what they are doing but feel as if they are behaving in a "proper" way. Often it is done to tick the box saying they are addressing the needs of everyone. That is quite ridiculous of course. I am extremely suspicious about the underlying motives for asking these questions and about what is done with the data and whether it is kept in complete confidentiality and by whom.

I would advise everyone to ignore these questions.

Well said Eloethan. I too think it’s petty to ignore those questions. After all, how else can the planners know that all sections of society are able to access their services?

Big brother is everywhere. When I did a photoshop course, the tutor had to include British values and world religions in it, to make sure I wasn't being radicalised by the course. I did wonder at first why I was being asked to name really hard to recognise Brits like the Queen and Prince Charles.

I will never answer the religion question on the government census form honestly for exactly the reason Patricia outlines.

The government has no damn business knowing at what address every [insert religion here] in the UK lives.

I do not consider myself libertarian, but the government are not entitled to keep tabs on the inside of my head.

patriciageegee I know we want to believe times have changed and that such horrors could not happen again. However, I have been advised by so many people now that whatever we say on Social Media, we need to know is collected as data and never thrown away! I still find that hard to believe thinking about just how much data that must be! Yet the people who tell me these things show cogent evidence and come from backgrounds of undeniable knowledge. I'm sorry I cannot disclose it! Very sorry, it does sound quite silly, but they have to remain in the background.

There are the websites, generally written off as "conspiracy theories" places, that have some of the evidence the same as I have seen. Part of what I know is on the 'Richplanet' website, for example where Neil Sanders exposed Cambridge Analytica before it became general news. Many people do not even agree to have a smart metre because it is collecting your personal data! Your mobile phone shows where you are*, (unless like me you keep forgetting it!) and some people told me your computer camera can remotely be accessed and used. Sounds crazy? I really do not know. I just can't see why anyone would want to know about someone as dull as me! I'm just terribly boring in fact. But apparently, what we write here, on FaceBook, and all the other places, is gathered up.

*But then, how often has mobile phone location been used to rescue some one who is lost? It is more a help than a threat, I think.

My own feeling is that there is a careful watch for sensitive data/words/information on internet messaging. For that, I think, we are all very grateful, because it really applies to terrorist acts or any kind of dangerous act against our Country. I don't think any normal citizen would mind their emails etc. being electronically checked for sensitive information to rule out that kind of threat.

kittylester You said:
It won't lead to quotas just more effective targeting at the groups who are under represented.

I sincerely doubt this. The responses to the data collection will almost certainly not reflect the attendance of the courses. The very nature of being asked these questions is likely to lead to misleading responses. Sadly it is also likely to make some people turn away, or perhaps hear second-hand that there is a form to fill in which asks this type of thing and subsequently they do not even go to enquire.

I think the people who believe their little questionnaire is useful are very misguided and misinformed, not to say somewhat arrogant.

Eloethan

So the "sections of society" that you say need to have the courses aimed at, must include the people in the groups represented by answers given under the following aspects:

Religion
Gender
Whether I am transgender
Sexual orientation

So you plan for different sexual orientations? Or for transgender people, for example?

Do you not have the sensitivity to see that simply asking these questions is intrusive and very frightening for some people?

Do you not have the intelligence to know that your responses are going to be heavily biased and that they will be extremely unreliable?

Has it not occurred to you that this is a waste of money?

I seem to remember 'concern' in some outdoors-y pursuits organisation, that not nearly enough ethnic minorities were joining up for country hikes, etc.

Those 'concerned' were completely ignoring the fact that in some cultures - perhaps particularly in non-northern European ones, going for long country walks when it's so often likely to be cold and/or wet, is just not something many of those people choose to do.

We have a lovely large green space nearby, where many families like to picnic on a nice day, and it's very noticeable that although there are 2000 acres to find a nice space in, certain ethnic minority families will so often choose a patch of grass as close as possible to the car park.

The world we live in, diversity funds everythingbthese days which is why the bbc is full of presenters with one arm or in wheelchairs or who can’t make up their minds if they are blokes or girls

An old colleague always used to answer the Sex question with 'yes please'.

Debenhams sell Sloggis, while we still have a Debenhams, also the Next shop, and I think Evans. Mrs Neil gets a box every Christmas - along with lots of other presents I hasten to add !!

leeds22 .
Reminds me of giving a personality questionnaire to a teenage boy to fill in. Next to Sex? he wrote "not yet".