Personal Hygiene for kids

To answer a question that has been raised by someone. My son is a vegan, has been for over ten years, and he definitely has a much fainter body odour than a meat-eater. In fact almost none at all. To touch on a delicate matter, even entering a toilet just after him, there is hardly any smell. I remember reading in a book (Angela´s Ashes?) that the Indian soldiers, who were vegetarians, smelled far less than their Irish counterparts who were on a diet of smoked pork. To go back to the OP, my parents were refugees from Eastern Europe, hence my mother did not shave her body hair, nor did she encourage me to do it. In my ballet class, when I was about 14, the teacher noticed my sprouting underarm hair, marched me to the bathroom and showed me how to use a razor. I was mortified (must have been because I remember it to this day) but really ever so glad that she noticed the problem and helped me to sort it out without too much fuss.

Isnt it a shame that we can't even identify someone by colour without being called racist. The school receptionist was commending me on pronouncing the child's name correctly at the same time admonishing someone else who had previously come to collect the 'African girl'. It got me wondering how I would feel if I was the only British person in a room and a driver came to pick me up and described me as 'the British woman'. I can honestly say it would not bother me one jot. I am not in any way shape or form a racist and very much resent the inference just for using the word black, if I had said white no one would be bothered. I explained, clearly I thought, why I felt the need as others had told me things I was not sure were true about her culture. Now someone else is accusing me of suggesting she is not really the age given, thanks, i really needed that having come here for advice. I will not join these chats again, too many judgemental people. And for the record I was taken for my dad's WIFE at age 13, so what does that make the person who said it? I give up, what sort of world is it when a person mentions another's colour and is called racist. I have no objection to being called a white woman so why is it different for any other race?

The OP is employed to transport looked after children. Any worries a transport officer has about a child should be raised with the social worker.
My initial thought on reading the OP was it is racist. The child’s ethnic background shouldn’t be seen as significant. I also wondered whether the OP is suggesting this African child is not really of primary school age.

It is well documented that during the Vietnamese conflict both sides said that before they saw or heard the other forces they could smell each other.
I taught PSHE at high school and personal hygiene was one of the first topics I tackled simply because primary school teachers don't have time or opportunity to do so.

Now for the interesting bit........Ta Dah!

Did you know that there is a correlation between having wet or dry earwax and body odour? No neither did I, but Mr. Google is very informative about such things:
The genetics behind wet versus dry earwax was discovered in 2006. Dry earwax is very common (80-95 per cent) among East Asians, but is lower (30-50 per cent) in southern Asia, Pacific Islands, Central Asia and Asia Minor, and in Native North Americans and Inuit peoples of Asian ancestry. It's very uncommon among Europeans and Africans (0-3 per cent). They overwhelmingly have wet earwax.

The type of earwax you have (wet or dry) is caused by a single variation in your DNA, on a very specific location on your 16th chromosome. This variation in the DNA turns out to have effects on the liver, pancreas, kidneys, placenta, breast tissue, gut, glands in your ear canal, and wait for it, sweat glands in your skin — and that includes your armpits. And yes, the genetics tells us that humans with wet earwax will sweat more from their armpits.

All sorts of things can affect our BO, the type of food we eat being one of them. This is why IMO people of one ethnic group could smell different from a different group. If they all ate the same food they would all smell the same. Not a race issue at all just a cultural one.
Certain medications, alcohol and underlying medical conditions being others.

Trisher. Not many kids these days are in children's homes, mostly those with special needs. This child is dropped off to people of her own race (which is why I suggested cultural). but not sure if they are carers or relatives. As transport staff we are not involved in anything more than taking them to and from. However it is a lovely job and I spend most of journey chatting, laughing and playing games with the kids. Some have behaviour issues, only to be expected, but others are quite charming and although we treat all the same some become more 'favourite ' than others.

So would you also consider a white or asian child might have a "cultural" reason for the problem Belgravian?

I don't think the op was being racist at all! It was important to note that the child was black because the situation would have to be handled more delicately than if it were a white child because the PC brigade can easily turn it into someone having a slight against a black child rather than someone being concerned about their hygiene and welfare.

It's completely irrelevant what colour a child is if they smell but it is very relevant when it comes to making a report about that child and to whom.

Early maturers are sometimes frightened of growing up and want to deny what is happening to them, esp if they are teased. That’s common too. Disappears when classmates reach the same stage.

If this child is a "cared for"child how can this be a 'cultural thing'? It sounds to me like a lack of proper care. Is she in a children's home? I know staff are not allowed to pressure children but they should be providing advice and enabling the girl to deal with the problem. And actually I think mentioning the fact that she is black is racist. I have worked with children from very poor backgrounds who have sometimes needed help with advice about personal hygiene. Most of the girls seemed to deal with the problem themselves towards the end of primary school, although one or two didn't. I would speak to your line manager and ask them to contact her carers.

It is interesting lollee how diet effects our bodily smell . I wonder if veggies smell differently to meat eaters??

I would imagine if it is so noticeable to you, then it has been noticeable to other adults involved in her care at school etc. These are the people you should speak to confidentially during "handovers". If you don't actually see someone when you drop her off at school then ask to have a word with them.

Mumofmadboys. I read an article once about that very subject and was surprised to learn that apparently other races say that white people smell of raw meat. I guess when you have a lifetime on a particular diet which may permeate the skin, you do not notice it yourself.

Mumofmadboys this is a chat forum not a report making service and it had no relevance but I don’t think it was in any way meant in a detrimental way but just not necessary at all

Actually I think ethnicity does have a bearing. Working with Asian folk I often noticed a smell which I put down to diet. I think living on spicy foods can cause a certain body odour.

Thank you all for your advice. I don't have access to her teacher as cared for kids have to be collected from reception but through the contact centre I may be able to get a message to her social worker. BlueBelle, I am sorry for any offence caused but I did explain that I had been told it was cultural so was hoping this could be confirmed or denied. However I can't help feeling that had I said she was white no one would have batted an eyelid.

Maybe start a conversation about deodorants and say something along the lines of 'what deodorant do you use, i have tried this one , then mention a name, and found it wasn't very good and caused my skin to feel sensitive' She may then say oh i don't use one or mention the one she does.That way you will then be able to talk about other products for personal hygiene, shower gels, soap, your preference for one or the other, how many times you bathe or shower wash hair, which shampoo you find best etc.

i still don’t see any relevance is stating her colour, of course black peoples don’t smell any different to white, brown or sky blue pink Sweat is sweat no matter who it’s coming from
You may as well have said a girl who wears a green jumper on Sundays
I have a similar problem with one of my teenage grandchildren I only see her on occasions because of geography but I always noticed a smell of BO she’s a terribly sensitive soul and I won’t say anything to her Her mum wouldn’t take it well at all if I said anything either She has a long term boyfriend who seems to have no problem with it I know she uses deodorant but I think it goes on as a cover up not a preventative

When teaching I had responsibility for safeguarding and child protection. I was often asked to discreetly talk to children about personal hygiene so I suggest you speak to her class teacher. It is surprisingly common in children of that age. Her teacher should also be aware of her home life so is well placed to know who to refer on to.

I do understand, one of ours had the same problem at the same age. I would suggest a quiet conversation with a key worker or social worker. Anyone not spending time in a confined space may not realise there is a problem. I hope this issue can be resolved before she is the subject of teasing or bullying.

Thanks for explaining, lollee - I see its relevance now. I can be slow sometimes!

I wish I could make a sensible suggestion, but can't. The girl could already be aware that there is a problem - at that age, I bet some of her less tactful classmates would have told her straight out - but ultimately, unless her parents/carers provide suitable toiletries and actively encourage a suitable hygiene regime, she may not be able to deal with this on her own. It does sound rather like it might be the parent/ carer that needs approaching, rather than the girl. Is there anyone working at the school who would have the authority to raise the issue with that person?

I wanted to add that I don't think you should speak to the child about it. She may well want antiperspirant/deodorant or even to wash more but may be denied access for whatever reasons at home and your mentioning her having BO could cause further distress.

It's possible that other children could already be making unkind comments .

The teachers may already be aware and they are in a much better with the support of the school to handle the matter professionally.

You have stated the facts and I find nothing offensive or racist, just someone wishing to tackle a tricky problem.

I think you need to report it to your supervisor/manager and ask if it's ok to report to the school as they may be able to broach the subject with the parents.

It is relevant that you mention that she is black because unfortunately the PC mad world we live in means that any report or action you make which isn't done through the proper channels can and will be misconstrued as you singling her out because of her skin colour! You absolutely would not have to tread so carefully if she was white.

MamaCaz I mentioned it because a professional told me it is a cultural thing but I am not sure if that is true or just one of those things that gets said but with no basis in truth.

Does she have a SW? Could they address the issue?