Abortion Time Limit

No thank you.

thanks GB I am shocked at "Repeat abortions
 Thirty-eight per cent of abortions in 2016 were to women who had had one or more previous
abortions, the same proportion as in 2015." Surely when someone has an abortion there should be counselling and they should be taught how to prevent another pregnancy?

Nonnie, table 7 in this document. These are the most recent figues as the 2017 data won't become available until this summer.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/679028/Abortions_stats_England_Wales_2016.pdf

@gummybears Thank you for your post on page 3.
Says everything needed.

Elrel Yes, I was astounded by what she told us. It was the Blackdown clinic at Leamington Spa, don't know if it is still there. Such things do affect how I look at things and make me realise it is not quite as simple as it may seem.

Another thing which made me wonder how easily some women terminate a pregnancy was when I was in hospital in LS trying to save one of my pregnancies and the girl in the next bed whose curtains had been drawn opened them and decided to chat. She asked me why I was in there and after hearing my answer very cheerfully told me she was in for an abortion. A few days later there was another one but I have no idea whether she was cheerful or not.

Yes, these things do cloud my opinion. I think we should educate people to not become pregnant simply by not taking precautions against pregnancy so that they don't think of an abortion as just another means of contraception. If not for the sake of the baby, for their own sake. Obviously in cases of rape etc it is another matter but it would be interesting if anyone has the statistics of the reasons for terminations.

And let's not forget that it was poor women who died. Rich women could buy a termination from doctors and have a nice safe procedure, sometimes in a Harley Street clinic. The idea that you will stop abortion by changing the law is ridiculous.
Lyndiloo if you haven't seen the film "Vera Drake" do please watch it. It is quite harrowing but gives a real insight into the abortion situation before the act.

Your petition would get no support from me.

So...women over what you deem to be the acceptable threshold that CHOOSE for whatever reason they feel is relevant should do what exactly?

Carry a child to term that they for whatever reason do not feel able to look after - then what? Put them up for adoption? Put them into care? Abandon them? Raise a child they did not choose to have?

OR, the most likely outcome is that women will seek abortions illegally, as happened before safe medical abortion existed, putting their own lives in danger and possibly dying in ,the process.

It is idiotic and dangerous to suggest removing the option of safe medically regulated abortion for women that need or want one. It will only lead to women once again dying from botched back street abortions, and unwanted babies being born to women that cannot care of them or do not wish to have them.

Lyndiloo I am so sorry for your loss of your twin boys.

NO

There are too many points raised here to respond to them all. However, I will address a few:

Many of you seemed not to have taken on board that I agree with abortions for medical reasons, and that obviously there would be valid exceptions to the time limits.

As for 'insults' - yes, I do find it insulting to be called a 'woman hater', a misogynist, and to have my blogs slagged-off as being 'narrow-minded', 'poorly written' and 'high-handed self-indulgence'. I don't take too kindly to being called an 'anti-abortion fanatic', either.

(And I would like to state here that I gave birth to twin boys who both eventually died from a genetic abnormality. Thankfully, with the advance of medical science, this can now be detected in the womb - and if I were young again, and pregnant again, and this horrible affliction were present, I would have an abortion. No question!)

And the suggestion that I was starting up this Petition just to get people to buy my books! (A poetry book, and a book about stress ...?) Yes, I found this pretty insulting!

And one last (quite spiteful, I think) post that I just have to correct is that of Gummybears (above). I would like to point out that this Petition was not mine - it was a Change.Org Petition that I signed. And the dolls are not just child-SIZE dolls, they are child-SEX dolls! And I make no apology for wanting these banned in the UK.

On a more positive note - I appreciate most the comments made, and yes, I'm now thinking that 10 weeks is perhaps too early. Maybe 16 ...?

I am also heartened by Cold's information that 92% of abortions are carried out at 12 weeks or below.

So thank you all - you've made me think again.

Lindyloo
People may have disagreed with you but I don't believe anyone has been rude.

Given that there are many women reading or posting on Gransnet, there is every likelihood that at least some of them have had an abortion (in fact, one poster has said that she had one for medical reasons). As you have posted material which, in effect, calls them murderers and speaks of women having abortions so as not to "inconvenience" themselves, I think you have got off rather lightly.

I would imagine the vast majority of women who have undergone abortions have done so for very good reasons personal to them. Some of them may have found the decision very difficult and distressing.

For the very few women who have had multiple abortions, I think this suggests that they have emotional or mental health issues. Would you really want to force any woman - let alone a woman who is already emotionally unstable or traumatised - to continue with a pregnancy and go through labour against her wishes?

In my view, women - not the state - have the right to control their own bodies. It is generally women who are left to nurture and care for the child and if they cannot, the state has to intervene. But the state isn't doing a great job in caring for the thousands of children that it is already responsible for. Research shows that looked-after children are more likely to experience heightened feelings of social isolation/difficulties in making attachments. They are also significantly over-represented in the prison population.

Lyndi so what would you suggest happens to babies from forced pregnancies? Are you volunteering to support them finacially or even to take them all in and care for them? Its a case of pro lifers who aren't at all interested in the end result of a pregnancy just their own idea of "morals" surely morals should include not bringing more children into the world to live in poverty or worse ?

Lyndiloo - sorry your first post on Gransnet has met with such a negative response, but it does give you an idea what little support you would have for a petition.

Ireland, in the early 1980s, when abortion was illegal, decided to make sure it stayed that way by putting a clause into the constitution protecting the “unborn”. It didn’t stop thousands of abortions, as many women travelled to Britain for abortions and in recent times have been buying abortion pills on the internet.

There have been a number of difficult high profile cases resulting from abortion ban, including a woman who died partly because of medical staff reluctant to terminate the miscarrying pregnancy because there was still a heartbeat. Now public opinion is swinging to support unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks, and later if medically necessary.

If by any chance your petition was successful, it would probably only export the problem, as women would travel to other parts of Europe for later abortions, which are thankfully quite rare.

Lindyloo, I really don't think my post or others were in your words "insulting". In your initial post, you asked for what support you could expect from other GN's. Many took the time to reply and give their opinions. I think you have perhaps been taken aback by the lack of support your petition would get by fellow GN's and find that hard to take, so see others points of view as being insulting to your point of view because they differ. I don't think anyone was being deliberately insulting to you.

I must have been one of the first women to have a pregnancy terminated, on medical advice, in 1967. It took until I was 12 weeks pregnant to get a complete diagnosis and organise a hospital bed. In those days a pregnancy was confirmed by sending off a urine sample for a Hogben test and waiting two weeks for the result, but even in these days of over-the-counter instant tests, it can take a long time before it is confirmed or even suspected that all is not well with a foetus.

Incidentally, at the time, I read up on the abortion statistics of various countries. The reported statistics varied from zero in several countries (with their official heads firmly in the sand) to the Soviet Union with an average ( an average with many women being above or below child-bearing age, or single and sexually inactive) of 6 per woman. I could only think that contraception must be completely unavailable there!

I wonder if this petition will meet with the same astounding success as your previous petition to prevent child sized dolls being sold in case people had sex with them

Lyndiloo, I did not insult you with my post. I think you owe an apology to the writers of the measured responses here.

As for it being a moral issue, I don't see much that's moral about women dying from terminations that have been deemed illegal. That's what would happen, you know. Abortion would still exist; it would just take place in less safe circumstances.

This seems like such a dangerous proposal to me, almost like a step back in time. I can understand why some believe that 24 weeks is too late, I go backwards and forwards on that one (I am obviously only speaking when it comes to an unwanted pregnancy, when it comes to the health of mother or baby it should never be deemed ‘too late’). But 10 weeks seems very early. It hardly gives the time to make a well informed and considered decision. Plus, as others have said, what about the mothers who don’t discover their pregnancy until after this time?
I know of several women who’ve had a abortions, for various reasons. The only ‘late’ abortion was under doctors advice, and none of the women took the decision lightly. I don’t know anyone who has had multiple abortions as a form of contraception. I’d be curious of the statistics on that?
I definitely wouldn’t sign this petition, it feels like a very negative step for women.

Thanks Lazigirl. I don't know anyone who took the decision lightly to have an abortion, either in my personal or working life. I also agree that throughout my work I never saw a late abortion performed without very good reason.
I know one woman who had three terminations, she had mental health problems. Who are these women who use abortion as contraception? I don't know any of them, either in my work or personal life.
I dislike this judgemental approach to women and girls.

In my experience I do not think most women take the decision lightly to have an abortion, and I feel ultimately it should be a women's right to choose. I started training as a student nurse just prior to 1967 Abortion Act and saw women die with what would now be described as sepsis, after back street abortions. Throughout my career I never saw a late abortion performed without very good reasons which included severe foetal abnormality or risk to maternal health.

Ten weeks is far too soon, twenty-four weeks is too late.

So Lyndiloo you didn't get the response you hoped for so accused posters of being "insulting". If you read the posts carefully you will see posters giving their opinions of why they disagree with you, I didn't see any "insults".

If you read my post you will see that I personally don't agree with abortion but that doesn't give me, or anyone else, the right to dictate to another woman. Making the decision to have an abortion is not one which women take lightly, I would think there would be a lot of careful and heart wrenching thought. It is not a decision a woman should have to take within a few weeks of finding out she is pregnant.

Nonnie - I don't understand why any woman would eschew contraception including the MAP so often that she'd undergo several TOP procedures within a few years. She's putting her body and mind through so much extra stress and risk.
I do understand that some relationships or lifestyles, sadly, preclude regular use of condoms or contraceptive pills. Other contraceptives needing less organising are available. What a sad dilemma some women find themselves experiencing.

Ten weeks is way too early in the pregnancy to be a cut off point.

Many women, especially young teenage girls and older women nearer menopause do not even realise that they’re pregnant until way beyond ten weeks.

Abortion is not a decision women take easily and quickly. Medical checks, scans etc and counselling all take time.

The existing time limits seem to be generally accepted as workable. It’s a difficult decision and the situation should not be made harder for women.