Putting the clocks back

As granny23 says, no matter what we do with the clocks we still get the same amount of daylight.
I expect the Scottish farmers are milking their cows in the dark no matter what the clock says.

I’m still jet lagged. Asleep on my feet by nine last evening and awake at five full of beans again this morning. Hate it! It’ll be another three or four days before I’m back to normal.

So, Granny23 It would be best if we stayed on GMT or even dropped back an hour permanently? Is that the right way around? Here in the east it is noticeable that we get dark earlier. The long summer evenings are longer in Devon and Cornwall!

I love the dark nights - candles and lamps on and curtains closed. Think I must have been a vampire in a former life

That's very informative, Elegran.
Such a shame about this, though - "Unfortunately the extra summer daylight can't be frozen and defrosted for use in the winter."

Ha ha ha MawBroon

That's a bit of strenuous volunteering!

I got caught out by the clocks this morning. I came downstairs having got up at 6.40 and it was 7.40am in the kitchen according to the clock as I made the tea. It took a while for it to register!

Thought I was time travelling for a few minutes!

There is always a presumption at this time of year that the clock change is of benefit to the Scots, particularly those in the far north but this is a fallacy. It matters not a whit what changes are made to 'official ' time there will still be only 4 hours of full daylight at midwinter (compensated for by 20 hours at midsummer). With this in mind farmers will adjust their schedule and choose the crops to grow, to suit themselves and their animals as best they can.

Following the Scandinavian model. some schools and businesses adjust their hours e.g. late start, early finish with only a very short break for lunch to make best use of daylight. Many residents will take their main holiday during the the dark days, jetting off for a fortnight in the sun.

The problem with the Greenwich meridian is that the vast majority of the UK lies to the west of it, such that 'real time' as determined by the sun differs by up to an hour across the width of Britain. If the meridian had been set to run up approximately the middle of the British Isles then nowhere would be more than half an hour out of kilter.

Low and short, Nellie and already starts later even without the hour difference.

Low - The angle of the sun in the sky affects the amount of sunlight that reaches a given area of the earth, In the winter, whereas the edge of the atmosphere in Penzance receives about 8 MJ/m2 of radiation , it decreases to about 2 in Shetland. Also the distance the sunlight then has to travel through the atmosphere affects how much of it is dissipated en route - particularly where there is higher cloud cover, as is the case in the west and north.

Short - The day is shorter at both ends as you go further north. If you are at 50°N, say in southern Cornwall, you go from about 8 hours day length in the middle of winter up to about 16 in the middle of summer. If you are in Shetland, which is about 60°N, the daylength ranges from about 3 hours in the middle of winter up to about 21 hours in the middle of summer. So for every degree further north you live, you lose about half an hour of daylight. in the winter. Unfortunately the extra summer daylight can't be frozen and defrosted for use in the winter.

Starts later - The sun rises later (and sets later) as you go further west (Edinburgh is as far west as Cardiff, Glasgow as far west as Swansea, and half of Scotland is to the west of Glasgow.) This can be more than an hour of difference.

There is a map of the latitude and longitude of the UK with principal cities marked at www.mapsofworld.com/lat_long/united-kingdom-lat-long.html and a transcript of a talk (quite long and detailed) on day length and latitude at www.google.co.uk/search?q=day+length+and+latitude+UK&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=lq31WdC_KY7Z8AfHzqvwBA

Sorry this post is rather long and didactic, but I don't think I can shorten it.

Do think of the poor Scots their winter sunlight is low at the best of times.
If we kept British Summer Time all the year the Scots would really be in the dark.

The original suggestion was to change the clocks by 20 minutes at a time up to a total of 80 minutes That might have been a bit gentler!

"BST was proposed in 1907 by William Willett, who happens to be the great-great-grandfather of Coldplay singer Chris Martin."

Willett, a builder from south east London, proposed the idea after being frustrated with cutting short his rounds of golf at dusk.

He self-published a pamphlet called Waste of Daylight which suggested that the clocks would move back 20 minutes each day for several days, to a total of 80 minutes.
www.theweek.co.uk/british-summer-time/82921/when-do-the-clocks-change-this-weekend

I wish my bladder would understand the concept of an extra hour in bed!

I too dislike the clocks changing and wish they stayed the same all year round. GMT or BST I don't mind just don't mess about with time - it mucks me up for ages!

Mnemonic, I think. But I had to use predictive text....

I think my body clock must have known about the clock change yesterday: my afternoon nap lasted two hours instead of the usual one. Then I woke up this morning at 05:30 (my usual time) GMT no problem.

I love GMT ????❤️

People who don't need to go and live in the middle of Scotland for a bit (a winter bit!) ?. Then they'll get it.

I agree nfk. Would rather the clock changes didn't happen. Not sure we'd ever get agreement which way round, though.

That Indian was so right GMA.

I gave in at got up at five. It's now six and I'm really hungry but if I have breakfast now, I'll never last until lunchtime.

I hate the clock changes - it takes days to get back into a routine. If the dark mornings are a problem why have BST? Why not just stay on GMT? I don't care which way round it stays, I just want time to stay put.

There was a trial in I think March 1968 or 1969 , mornings were dark

As one who still works 9 to 5, but has problems with driving in the dark, can't say I look forward to it.

I love the onset of dark nights; autumn has always been my favourite time of year. As a child I was always relieved to go back to school in September and with the advent of dark nights I was allowed to stay indoors and read. When my children were young I loved lighting the fire and having them at home reading, doing jigsaws or playing board games in the autumn evenings. The house always sounded so jolly and there was lots of laughter and impromptu events simply because we were all indoors together. Today my daughter sent me a photograph of her family kicking leaves in the forest and I was transported back to when I did that with mine.

If my dogs think they're getting an early dinner tomorrow they can think again.

My mother's dogs (Lab and a Springer) were fed at 5.30 on the dot.

Once a year they were distraught at a late supper, and another time they were ecstatic at an early one!

I don`t know how to explain to Mia tomorrow night. Every night at 10pm she sits in front of me waiting for her treats. Tomorrow she`ll be waiting at 9pm, but she aint getting `em till 10!
My lounge clock is radio controlled, but I`ve got to alter all the others.

humptydumpty what is "just not right" about it?
We are about to return to Greenwich Mean Time, what could be more right than that?

I live in the north of Scotland and without the time change I'd be pottering around in the dark until gone 10am each morning. I was at grammar school in Kent when they did the three-year experiment of not changing the clocks in the late 60's and it was utterly miserable getting up in the dark, doing an hour's commute to school and only seeing the sun rising during the first period of lessons.

My four children never took more than a couple of days to adjust especially once they were at school. For me, it's no different to having a late night out or going on holiday in a different time zone.

Does anybody actually like the twice yearly messing about with the clocks? It’s a bloody nuisance and takes me and the animals a fortnight to adjust to every time.
As for the “extra hour in bed” most people can get up when they choose on a Sunday.
I’m another who will wake at my normal time tomorrow and suddenly it’s a ludicrous 4am. HATE IT!

We too dislike the messing around with clocks. However, most of the clocks in our house are the radio controlled kind and reset themselves. The rest of the clocks we leave alone. We take our time from the sun and the wildlife in the back garden who we feed regularly. Incidentally, the shortest day of the year, is December 21st. which, like some other members, we look forward to and watch the days gradually get longer...YIPPEE...Only seven weeks to go.

Brian.