I know my place

Actually, Cherrytree, we've twice lived in council houses, twice in private rented, and the rest in our own mortgaged homes.
You are right about the council houses being much bigger than the private ones. They were built to Parker Morris standards, much bigger floor area.
Unfortunately I think that changed when housing associations had to take over. Sad really. Particularly when the government brought in the bedroom tax.

Mandatory Parker Morris standards were abolished in 1980 as part of the changes to council housing introduced by Margaret Thatcher (Right to Buy was 1979). My long post from yesterday at 23.47 gives a brief(!) history of public housing.

I tried to say this in my other long post from early this morning at 00.14, but I think a large part of society does look down on council tenants and I gave my reasons why I think this is in that post. Funnily enough, I don't think Housing Association tenants are viewed quite the same way.

Annie you might be interested in the theory that's replaced the idea of just three social classes.

The seven social classes

Elite - This is the wealthiest and most privileged group in the UK. They went to private school and elite universities and enjoy high cultural activities such as listening to classical music and going to the opera.
Established middle class - This is the most gregarious and the second wealthiest of all the class groups. They work in traditional professions and socialise with a wide variety of people, and take part in a wide variety of cultural activities.
Technical middle class - This is a small, distinctive and prosperous new class group. They prefer emerging culture, such as social media, and mix mainly among themselves. They work in science and tech and come from middle-class backgrounds.
New affluent workers - These people are economically secure, without being well-off. This class group is sociable, has lots of cultural interests and sits in the middle of all the groups in terms of wealth. They're likely to come from working class backgrounds.
Traditional working class - This group has the oldest average age, and they're likely to own their own home. They mix among themselves and don't enjoy emerging culture. Jobs in this group include lorry drivers, cleaners and electricians.
Emergent service workers - These young people have high social and cultural capital - so they know people from all different walks of life, and enjoy a wide range of cultural activities - but are not financially secure.
Precariat - The poorest and most deprived social group. They tend to mix socially with people like them and don't have a broad range of cultural interests. More than 80% rent their home.

At this point in my life I find myself in the bottom class and in my case this is because I can no longer work for health reasons. I used to be a New Affluent Worker, but I can no longer afford to do the things I used to do.

If anyone else is interested in finding out what class they come in try this BBC quiz from a few years ago -
The Seven Classes

The last time my husband was involved in designing council housing was in 1975-6, Wilma, so that explains it.
The council house we lived in then was very large compared with the private house we moved into afterwards.

Just what I thought, Wilma, traditional working class.

Most of the best council housing in my town was built in the late 50's early 60's (some in the 70's but they're just awful flat roofed boxes). The earlier built ones are all very large, brick built and traditionally quite good looking homes. They are all built with paths and roads with patches of green dotted here and there. They have large rooms and many have been bought under the right to buy scheme. Some of the better ones are fetching more on the market than a privately built home as the rooms are much bigger and you can do a lot with them. The council houses built in the 70's look like they were thrown up. Really ugly things with cladding and no bricks. They were virtually all built with flat roofs although an ongoing improvement program is putting roofs onto them. They were built in clusters with paths but very little road access. Not many of these have been bought as I could imagine they would be a liability.

Thank you Wilma, but I have no time for it, I know it is still as strong now as it ever was. Think Oxbridge, the City, doesn't mean I have to accept it. And I do know many still aspire to move up a class , how sad.

Nothing will change my opinion that calling the residents of thst tower block the bottom of society was offensive

WKf if I look at my life using that scale against the households I have been part of it goes:

Technical middle class (different emerging technology but comparable)
New affluent
Established middle class
Traditional working class
Precariat

Although the people I mix with and the things I enjoy come (and always came) from all those stages.

Divorce and ill health led to taking steps down the perceived ladder. I think not being part of one strata of society is much more common these days and I certainly don't feel upset by people trying to describe parts of society. It is just a tool to try and understand what is happening and, often, what can be done. In some ways (financially) I am certainly at the bottom of society, in others I am not, I am still managing to hang on to my own home and enjoying many of the things I have always enjoyed.

Using a shorthand to describe the multiplicity of difficulties many of the people in the tower may have had is only "deeply offensive" if it is taken in that way. It shows no signs of being so either in the actual words or in the use. Chips on shoulders come to mind.

Hyacinth Bucket comes to mind

I would probably say I was "traditional working class" but without the security of the regular pay packet of an electrician or a lorry driver .

Well, I have learnt a new word, precariat. I know which class I came from, established middle, and the class DH came, working class,
from but there does not seem a class to fit us. The tech.middle class is too 'techy' for us.

Thank you, Wilma for that interesting information.

I found new affluent amusing, here we say - old money and new money

This is interesting - this new scale looks at age profile as well - a new development. It reminds me of the once popular A,B1,B2,C1,C2,D,E classification system - but the focus was on job rather than income or wealth - and the job of the head of household - i.e. the man!
Then the sales & marketing people were interested in who bought products so we had the classification by "innovators" etc.
But what I'd like to see is which class is most content in their lives? Social mobility can go both ways - but going "down" (I don't like using the words up and down, but you know what I mean) doesn't necessarily equate to unhappiness and going "up" doesn't always bring contentment.
As for me I'm a classic case of working class grammar school girl who is now classed as "middle" - we used to be referred to as the "lieutenant" class - lost to the working class but not quite comfortable in the middle class.

What happened to the 'nouveau riche' then?

GGMK2 I've also been in 5 groups across my life so far.

Annie I know that phrase too, but not in the same context. For me it was about people who inherited wealth (and I mean wealth) and people who acquired it like a lottery jackpot millionaire, a nouveau riche sort of thing.

I've still not come across the phrase you first mentioned in all the reports I've read, so perhaps the TV report you saw was the only time it was said. Life is too short to let something like that bother me for very long.

I could cope with being "nouveau rich" . I Would give it away like a woman with 5 arms.

After seeing a newspaper photograph of Michelle Mone I read up on her. A real rags to riches story and one to be admired but however rich I was I just couldn't pay £17,000 for a handbag, which was what the news article was about.

nouveau rich are new money,

Wilma, it means more than inherited wealth here, inherited wealth could be one generation. Old money are those who inherit estates, often titles and money down many generations.

Often nouveau riche were people who had actually earned their wealth because of an invention or because of the job they did such as the bankers - many of them started out as from fairly normal families who were not rich nor did they have inherited wealth but due to the job they did and more importantly the bonuses they were given became rich. Footballers etc could also be in this category. Nowadays there would be youngsters who have made themselves rich with an Internet business of some sort - think Facebook etc.

Yes Welshwife, so they are new money

Same thing, but if you insist on calling it 'new money' that's fine Annie - just don't expect everyone else to!

I don't care what anyone calls it, Wilma said it meant something a bit different, I just joined in that conversation

I wouldn't admire anyone who spent £17,000 on a handbag - "new" or "old" money.

I just wondered where they fitted in with these classes of society that were being discussed.