I know my place

I think it all depends what you mean by Bottom of Society.....if you want to translate it to 'Most in Need' then even then I do not feel that many of the people interviewed on the TV seemed 'Needy' Yes, some had low incomes or were out of work but being a council tenant does not in any way simply mean that you are poor and out of work.....it just means you rent your home from a large organisation and there will always be people who, for many different reason do not want to or cannot buy their own home in many different parts of the UK. Many of the people I saw came across as dedicated family people working hard and generally contributing to life.
There are those in this world who contribute nothing, have children who do similar....people who seem to feel society owes them everything yet they refuse to live by its rules. People who abuse the police and see anyone in authority as a potential enemy. I saw none of that on the news....just people from many races and cultures living lives, perhaps unremarkable lives but decent lives.

Shame on David Lammy , and I lived in a private rent for nine years, he was minister of universities and skills .

He caused upset when we were waiting for the appointment of the Pope, he thought the berb speaking of white or black smoke had made a racist remark , and following riots he said corporal punishment would have avoided riots

Wise owl isn't he

Until I went to secondary school we lived in a tenement flat owned by my parents. It was a little damp and they'd been on the housing list for a long time. When they were eventually allocated a council house my father sold the flat for the price he'd paid for it as he refused to make a profit from another working man.

He, and consequently we, never considered ourselves to be anything other than equal to anyone, whether they lived in a mansion or a single end. I had friends who lived in both.

Council house dwellers the bottom of society? I think not.

So you have heard this "several times" Annie. I may have missed something but who actually said it? A link would be useful as seeing things in context helps understand what was meant at the time.

So who is top of society?

Who has said anything about anyone being anywhere in society. It is a bit difficult to discuss in a vacuum.

It is a very unfortunate term and the fact that we can't define it says to me that it is meaningless.

I think it has been a term used by the popular press and the television news broadcasts many times over the past week.

Isn't it a bit dusty in there GG?

I can see it obviously matters to you Annie and a lot of others. I'm questioning how I would feel if I were also actually in that position.
NO, thinking about it, I never really question at all. I agree with baubles
never considered ourselves to be anything other than equal to anyone, whether they lived in a mansion or a single end.

Let's turn it on its head, (NOT boasting), and say we live in £1million house, have a holiday home abroad, 2 cars. What would people think about that then? Is it the top of society? I've never given it a thought. It's just what it is.

I agree the media is to blame for stirring up the inequalities in society, but no one should feel inadequate or even guilty.

Let's turn it on its head, (NOT boasting), and say we live in £1million house, have a holiday home abroad, 2 cars. What would people think about that then? Is it the top of society? I've never given it a thought. It's just what it is

Not the top of society at all, Lillie just extremely fortunate.

Good answer, gillybob. And I will never be at the top! I guess we are all somewhere on the ladder, does it really matter where?

Lillie, it matters to me not because I live in social housing, I detest people being placed on social levels, it is a form of racism

Not healthy living in s Vacum GG and there is so much beauty and joy in the real world, join us , fling open your Vacum bag and sniff the fresh air

I grew up on a council estate. My parents were married in 1950 and moved into their house shortly before I was born. At the time, the Spadeadam Rocket Establishment was being developed, for our attempt at joining the space race. The authorities built houses for the research workers, engineers etc.,on farm land just beyond our homes. My Dad worked at Spadeadam, and I was often asked by friends why I didn't live on their estate. It was always a challenge trying to make them understand that we were there before the houses were built, and I remembered playing in the fields where the houses now stood. My parents bought their house at the beginning of the right to buy scheme, and we sold it when my Dad died two years ago. Most of that estate is now privately owned.

^ it matters to me not because I live in social housing, I detest people being placed on social levels, it is a form of racism.^

Yes, it's people's perceptions that are distorted then, Annie.

By the way, I'm glad you put this in the "Chat" section, instead of "politics" entering into it.

My father used to tell me that everyone, from dustman to Duke is equal. I haven't found any reason to believe he was wrong. Isn't this often a case of inverted snobbery by people who (probably quite reasonably) feel quite insecure and attribute this sort of thing to themselves as in "I know everyone thinks we are at the bottom of the heap/pile/society" I really haven't heard anyone saying this to describe other people.

Yes, GGMK2, maybe that's because we're all too busy worrying about ourselves in this day and age. We hardly give a thought to others, it would seem. That's why the comment, "I see where you're coming from" is so meaningless.

Good posts Lillie
Anyone saying that has a cheek ,'the bottom of society' indeed ,to mean council tenants!

I have never heard anyone describe themselves as being at the bottom of society, I heard it this week on tv and it was said about people living in council flats.

What is this social ladder ? I do not acknowledge it. People are tall/short, plump/skinny, boring/amusing, able bodied / disabled . They have one thing in common, they are human beings free to walk the streets , vote, breath the same air, all people bleed if cut, all need a loo , all need love.

I think these sort of terms really relate to deprivation. It is very difficult to know how to define that, maybe living in social housing is one contributory factor. It's not meant to be derogatory, it is just one of a number of factors such as proportion of working age people who are unemployed, average no. of people per room, car ownership etc., to derive a measure which can be used to look at how health outcomes are related to levels of deprivation.

It is derogatory , are the unemployed the bottom of society? No they are not,

Annie, it simply means that there is some objective way - albeit approximate - to do research into, for example, whether there is a discrepancy in access to healthcare ( to name but one thing) depending on levels of 'deprivation'. It is NOT intended to be derogatory in that context, and it is the only way in which access to services will become more equal across society.

Its all a bit reminiscent of what the Victorian's used to call 'the deserving poor' as averse to 'the undeserving poor'. In those days you only had to be a single parent to be labeled 'undeserving'! Thankfully times have changed but there are still those quick to label people and justify their attitudes.

I think what is difficult for many of us is to witness people who have had a few chances in life, state education, NHS services and benefits when times get hard, yet they still seem to expect cause havoc in their neighbourhoods. On specific cases one can argue that perhaps there are unmet mental health issues or traumas and misfortune but sometimes some people are their own worse enemy.
However,I will very strongly refute all arguments about the general labelling of people who live in social housing.
Its there for a purpose - some people will never afford their own houses. Many would like to rent privately but that is completely unaffordable for many especially in many cities let alone London. Some will move on, some will stay all their lives.....its their home and that all their is to it!

No one can put you down unless you choose to be put down. Same with people being victimised or bullied.

That's not to say it's not happening but many people just shrug if off while others take it t heart. So change your mind set Annie and don't let them grind you down.

As one GNer always says in discussions like this 'context is everything'. The exact quote and the exact circumstances would clarify what was meant. What's so certainly true is that if you are a social housing tenant in K&C in GT you were not listened to or treated with respect - you could deduce from that that you seen by others as the bottom of the pile/heap/society - that doesnt mean you ARE it's about how certain others PERCEiIVE you in their list of priorities.