Labelling Children

Mind you don't slip up on it - again.

I CBA'd replying earlier, but I'm sure you must know it's not like that at all. OFSTED make their judgements, not on a one-off lesson that they've just observed, but also by talking to the children, going through all their books and written work, classroom displays, teachers record-keeping and seeing the level at which they've been working over the year. They consider the standard of marking very carefully when making a judgement and also the behaviour of the class. I'm talking here primary school where, normally, one teacher is responsible for delivering most aspects of the curriculum. It was quite normal to observe more than one lesson and to discuss specific curriculum areas with those responsible for them. In addition SATs results, added value, the demograph of the school, etc. we're taken into consideration

I'd have to check with my daughter, SIL and DiL how things are done at secondary level these days.

Were not we're.

This is an interesting discussion as one of my DDs was (and still is) dyslexic; but she was 100% determined that no-one was going to stick a label on her and she soldiered her way through her schools, uni and an MA on the back of huge effort.

I remember one of her secondary school English teachers saying how very bright she was and was always first with a verbal answer. We knew why her verbal skills were so well developed!

We let her choose her own way forward but would have been ready to intervene if we felt things were getting too difficult for her.

Of course. But you tried to add authority to your post by claiming (twice) that Ofsted had graded you an "outstanding' teacher", which simply could not have been true. I think it's unwise to try to win an argument with inaccurate information and surely just damages your cause when pulled up on it?

Mrs Moop, thank goodness caning and slippering have now been banned from schools. I did not send my children to school to be abused by teachers. They were there to learn. I would have been down to the school straight away if they had been caned.

I was a prefect at school. I caught some people messing about with mercury and took it off them. The teacher walked in to the classroom, saw me holding the test tube and sent me to the headmistress for the cane! Not one of the little sneaks owned up in my defence. Hope you are reading this wherever you are.

Thought I would put this link here for those who do not understand the problems Autistic children and their parents have:

www.healthtalk.org/peoples-experiences/autism/parents-children-autism-spectrum/fears-anxieties-sensory-issues-and-meltdowns

Well worth the read, and I feel very sympathetic to any parent having to cope with it.

Don't forget there are five times as many adults with autism as there are children! They all grow up and still have it. One of the people our team diagnosed was a teacher fyi! This person was specially commended by the schools inspectorate(or whoever it was who inspected schools). This teacher was especially praised by the children for their fairness to all and good organisation. The children always knew what was expected of them. They didn't know that the biggest nightmare for this person was the social chitchat of the staffroom and that their refuge during breaks was the stationary cupboard with the lights out for sensory reduction.

Good point Jane10.
Our second son, now aged 53, is probably in what's now called the autistic spectrum. He was once diagnosed as bipolar, like his Dad, but we now think that was a mistake. He came off his medication and didn't relapse. Always had social and relationship problems, but brilliant at school and University. Got a 1st in Maths from Manchester.
We're very proud of him now. And his wife, who has similar problems. They're the ones who are bringing up 4 orphan children in India. He works there as a maths teacher.

Get off my back jayanna you are merely splitting hairs.

OFSTED ? the organisation founded by Grimms, their fairytales are equal to Disney

You speak from first hand experience I'm guessing grannypiper

Jayanna, I don't know how much experience of Ofsted you've had, but in the early days they most certainly did grade individual teachers. The information was given to headteachers and caused a great deal of tension within schools.

Indeed they did, daphnedill, and the grading was a horrendous experience for many teachers.

Those were the days when Ofsted would send a whole team for a week. Every teacher was observed for whole lessons - sometimes three or four times. At the end of the week, teachers were summonsed to a meeting with an inspector, who then gave out the lesson grades. These grades were given to headteachers, who were supposed to keep them confidential and weren't supposed to use them to target individual teachers, but they did. It was because individuals were often scapegoated for something which was a snapshot that unions fought for that aspect of Ofsted to be abolished. Of course, it was still possible to identify an individual teacher, if Ofsted highlighted a particular year group in primary or the only teacher of a specialist subject in secondary.

They graded the quality of teaching which they observed and it was indeed a horrendous and unfair judgement for the reasons I outlined above. It is true that management then msinterpreted this in some schools, but Ofsted never said this is an outstanding teacher, only that they had seen an example of outstanding teaching.
Teaching, after all, in recent years has encompassed much more than the delivery of lessons.

Not true, Jayanna. In the very early days, they gave Headteachers a list of the lessons they had observed with the grade awarded for the teaching of each lesson. No, they didn't say 'this is an outstanding teacher', but headteachers scrutinised the grades individual teachers were given.

I was a Head of Department when Ofsted first appeared on the scene. I had a member of department who was causing some concern for all sorts of reasons. I did my best to support this person, but it was hard work and taking up a lot of my time. I discussed the situation with the headteacher, who then told me the Ofsted grades and told me they'd get rid of the person. I was quite shocked that I'd been given the lesson grades and felt very uncomfortable about the methods which were used to remove the person from the school.

It was probably a positive move that this person left teaching, but I wasn't happy that confidentiality had been broken and I felt stuck in the middle. The Ofsted inspector had also wanted to discuss this teacher with me. In those days, a lot went on in meetings behind teachers' backs, which never appeared in the official written reports.

Yes as you say they graded the teaching they observed. Where teaching was poor management were supposed to provide support leading to improvement. Your head teacher was unprofessional to say the least. But my point is that Anya can not say, as she did, that Ofsted rated her an outstanding teacher.

Sounds like you have some kind of axe to grind Jayanna or you just like putting people down There is nothing to be ashamed about being told your teaching is 'outstanding'. It is hard though for those individuals who were judged to be 'inadequate'. But then we didn't need OFSTED to tell us that.

It did mean that some who should never have been teaching in the first place left the profession, but it also meant that others were offered support and a mentor to help and support them in their professional development.

I'm not a great fan of OFSTED having preferred the HMI system which often used local LEA staff who knew the schools.

And that misrepresentation does nothing to win an argument. It rather does a disservice to the cause they espouse.

I sorry if you think I'm putting you down. I think this discussion is too important to be sullied by inaccuracy or invective.

What a load of bull. You dived in, split hairs, got yourself tied in knots with the semantics, have ignored those (other than myself) who tried to tell you how it was and insulted DD's HT.

Who are you to call someone you don't know 'unprofessional' .

We've all read enough of your posts to get your measure.

Invective.......

Now you're repeating yourself! . and I don't think you know what the word means.

Let me help with that;
vehement or violent denunciation, censure, or reproach, railing accusation; vituperation, an insulting or abusive word or expression.

I don't think so!

I call it summarising your position so far. Nothing 'vehement or violent' no 'railing accusation; vituperation' or 'insulting or abusive word or expression'

And there was a question you have yet to answer.

And while I'd love to continue this ...? whatever?....I really must get the GSs sorted as they are here overnight. You carry on and I'll catch up with you about 10.30 pm.