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Are we seeing the demise of Christmas?

(114 Posts)
Yorkshiregel Tue 20-Dec-16 12:11:16

These days schools seem to be ignoring religion, or at least Christianity. It seems as though they are trying to wipe it out sometimes. We are not allowed to put Nativity scenes in shop windows for example, and the Government have stopped religious assemblies in schools. Our town no longer proudly shows off its beautiful Christmas tree outside the church. There was talk in our town of changing the name Christmas to Winterfest! Didn't happen in the end. All because of the other religions that we have in this country, so that they are not offended. Yet there is no talk about banning other religious ceremonies. Shops are being allowed to open on Christmas Eve and Boxing Day. Some people even have to work on Christmas Day.

I wondered what other people think of this. I think Christmas is a time to celebrate the birth of Christ. I believe it is a good time for families to get together and a time to heal old wounds. I think people should not work on any of the 3 days over Christmas. I believe there is enough greed in the world without allowing shops to open over Christmas and I believe that people need a rest from all their worries and more time with their families.

Maggiemaybe Fri 23-Dec-16 18:34:04

I have never heard anyone say Happy Holidays other than in an American made film.
'Happy Holidays' is Daily Express inspired malicious nonsense
I too havve nnever heard anyone say Happy Holiday ,its and Americanism ,iisn;t it
I ve never heard anyone say Happy Holiday

Just me then? The headteacher of one of our local primaries in her end of term newsletter - "Happy Holidays to those of you celebrating this month". Christmas wasn't mentioned. There is, quite rightly, no hesitation in wishing Eid Mubarak to the 50% of Muslim families at the school. It's a great shame that well-meaning people suck the joy out of celebrating all of our festivals. The South Asian Muslim families I know have their Christmas trees up and were asking why there wasn't a school carol service this year.

durhamjen Fri 23-Dec-16 18:08:23

Herod killing all the newborn boys?

Stansgran Fri 23-Dec-16 17:58:23

I celebrate Christmas. I can't take the Christ child out of the equation. If I did it would be Yule and celebrate the turning of the year. Which is fine. Chill out and celebrate and stop overthinking. Glitter and magic and joy and presents and smiling people and good food. What's not to like?

durhamjen Fri 23-Dec-16 15:43:08

From the British Humanist Association.

www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/bha-british-humanist-association/article/no-war-on-christmas-new-poll-shows-91-of-brits-celebrate-chr

BlueBelle Fri 23-Dec-16 15:20:30

Just bought my local paper and it has EIGHTpages of schools nativity scenes so think you're definitely barking up the wrong tree Yokshiregal

paddyann Thu 22-Dec-16 15:11:28

Yorkshiregel,so religion being the opiate of the poor and the masses is wrong? Let people believe or not as they wish ,and celebrate how they wish ,its a very different world from when you ...and I were young ,accept that...but you are wrong you know,NOBODY is trying to change Christmas,in any way ,,I have never heard anyone say Happy Holidays other than in an American made film and I know that the spirit of "christianity" or just plain good heartedness is alive and well .There are people that I know who are working hard to give aid to families in difficulty and the homeless this and most weekends ,A group of young moslemms in Glasgow looking for more recruits to hand out parcels of food and warm clothing in Glasgow city centre ...they dont believe in Jesus ...they're just good people doing what good people do and they haven't asked that we dismantle ou r nativity sets ,or take doen our trees.I dont know where you live but if its that bad why do you stay there?From a non believer,a very Hapy Christmas and a Happy Healthy and Prosperous 2017

Yorkshiregel Thu 22-Dec-16 14:38:30

Whatever your thoughts are about where Christmas came from and what it means I think that to believe in something gives comfort to those in pain, those who are grieving and those who are at war. Better to believe in something rather than believe in nothing, whichever religion you follow.

Yorkshiregel Thu 22-Dec-16 14:32:51

granjura, well it wasn't about shopping, sales, and making a glutton of yourself was it?

Interesting article though.

durhamjen Thu 22-Dec-16 12:19:48

Anyone in Brum?

theconversation.com/the-busy-romans-needed-a-mid-winter-break-too-and-it-lasted-for-24-days-69661

Katek Thu 22-Dec-16 12:08:43

gillyanne - Hannukah Sameach!

durhamjen Thu 22-Dec-16 10:48:43

We care because we were told to go and find our own festivals, which we had long before Christianity came on the scene.

The Annunciation was very clever marketing, working back from the hijacking of the midwinter festival.

M0nica Thu 22-Dec-16 10:25:37

Actually, who cares? The connection between the death of the year and the possibility of the return of growth in the spring and the birth of a new family and hope for the world was always meant to be symbolic and has always been accepted as so by any thinking Christians.

I also think this belief in an interfering God is also completely cock-eyed. The bible says, if it is to be quoted, that Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden and when they broke the rules they were kicked out to manage on their own. Hence the doctrine of free will. That humanity has hijacked the concept of God and used it to their purposes, to justify both good and evil and as a justification for rejection is an entirely different argument.

And anyway, Swanny, Advent signifies the period when the birth is prepared for, not at all the same as the date of conception. The conception is celebrated on the 25th March, the religious celebration known as the 'The Annunciation', which is exactly 9 months before Christmas. You were no doubt a 'newly aware' teenager, but not a knowledgeable one.

granjura Wed 21-Dec-16 19:33:20

Rudolf Steiner on Christmas...

"Christmas is not a Festival of Christendom only. In ancient Egypt, in the regions we ourselves inhabit, and in Asia thousands and thousands of years before the Christian era we find that a Festival was celebrated on the days now dedicated to the celebration of the birth of Christ.
Now what was the character of this Festival which since time immemorial has been celebrated all over the world on the same days of the year? Wonderful Fire Festivals in the northern and central regions of Europe in ancient times were celebrated among the Celts in Scandinavia, Scotland and England by their priests, the Druids. What were they celebrating? They were celebrating the time when winter draws to its close and spring begins. It is quite true that Christmas falls while it is still winter, but Nature is already heralding a victory which can be a token of hope in anticipation of the victory that will come in spring — a token of confidence, of hope, of faith — to use words which are connected in nearly every language with the Festival of Christmas. There is confidence that the Sun, again in the ascendant, will be victorious over the opposing powers of Nature. The days draw in and draw in, and this shortening of the days seems to us to be an expression of the dying, or rather of the falling asleep of the Nature-forces. The days grow shorter and shorter up to the time when we celebrate the Christmas Festival and when our forefathers also celebrated it, in another form. Then the days begin to draw out again and the light of the Sun celebrates its victory over the darkness. In our age of materialistic thinking this is an event to which we no longer give much consideration.
In olden times it seemed to men in whom living feeling was united with wisdom, to be an expression of an experience of the Godhead Himself, the Godhead by Whom their lives were guided. The solstice was a personal experience of a higher being — as personal an experience as when some momentous event forces a man to come to a vital decision. And it was even more than this. The waxing and waning of the days was not only an expression of an event in the life of a higher Being, but a token of something greater still, of something momentous and unique.
This brings us to the true meaning of Christmas as a Festival of the very highest order in cosmic and human life. In the days when genuine occult teaching was not disowned as it is today by materialistic thought but was the very wellspring of the life of the peoples, the Christmas Festival was a kind of memorial, a token of remembrance of a great happening on the Earth. At the hour of midnight the priests gathered around them their truest disciples, those who were the teachers of the people, and spoke to them of a great Mystery. (I am not telling you anything that has been cleverly thought out or discovered by a process of abstract deduction but was actually experienced in the Mysteries, in the secret Sanctuaries of those remote times). This Mystery was connected with the victory of the Sun over the darkness. There was a time on the Earth when the light triumphed over the darkness. And it happened thus: in that epoch, all physical, all bodily life on Earth had reached the stage of animality only. The highest kingdom upon the Earth had only reached a stage at which it was preparing to receive something higher. And then there came that great moment in evolution when the immortal, imperishable soul of man descended. Life had so far developed that the human body was able to receive into itself the imperishable soul. These ancestors of the human race stood higher in the scale of evolution than modern scientists believe, but the higher part of their being, the divine ‘spark’ was not yet within them. The divine spark descended from a higher planetary sphere to our Earth which was now to become the scene of its activity, the dwelling-place of the soul which henceforward can never be lost to us."

From 'The Festivals and Their Meaning: I Christmas' by Rudolf Steiner

Leticia Wed 21-Dec-16 19:20:29

I don't recognise anything from OP. Shops have nativity scenes in the window, if they want them- a couple have lovely knitted ones. All the children that I know have been in a traditional nativity. I am going to community carol singing in a town square tomorrow night. We have a huge Christmas tree in the market square.
I went to London a couple of weeks ago and walked miles especially to see all the Christmas sights.
Christmas is only commercial if you let it be.

Gillyanne Wed 21-Dec-16 19:02:29

Shalom... Lewlew and BBbevan
Enjoy you festivities

Jalima Wed 21-Dec-16 18:29:20

But, unlike Easter, it is not a moveable feast

Jalima Wed 21-Dec-16 18:28:45

and the Wise Men may not have visited for about two years after the birth

granjura Wed 21-Dec-16 18:26:22

As Witzend says, there has been a mid-winter festival for such a long time before Christianity, and so many of the Christmas traditions come from then too- both the date and traditions were adopted by Christians to make it more 'acceptable' to non-Christians. Most Christians know now that it is more than higly unlikely Jesus was born on 25th December!

Swanny Wed 21-Dec-16 18:19:10

I wrote an erudite post yesterday about early Christians hi-jacking the winter solstice and how, as a 'newly aware' teenager, I couldn't make the dates add up between Advent at the beginning of December and Jesus' birth on the 25th, then the arrival of the 3 wise men 2 weeks later. My computer crashed as I pressed 'Send', unable to cope with my further wisdom about how the Bible was based on hearsay then used verbatim by the rich to dominate the poor tchgrin

A lady got on the same busy bus as me today and and was talking to anyone who would listen about how Christmas in the cold and dark was all wrong. Jesus was born in September she asserted, and the Christians had stolen Hannukah from the Jewish people to confuse and convert them to Christianity.

An earlier post (maybe on another thread?) echoed my feelings of envy of those who have unquestionable trust in the actions of their God, of whichever religion. However, I cannot accept an all-seeing, all-powerful entity who causes to happen such atrocities in the world. God of love? Not in my eyes.

1974cookie Wed 21-Dec-16 17:39:17

I can still remember my little speech when I was in a Nativity play aged 5.
" May we peep and see Jesus asleep"?
Happy Days
tchgrin

M0nica Wed 21-Dec-16 17:12:52

DGC are performing in a nativity play at church this year, but in previous years they have performed in them at their state school, which also had a carol concert. I went to a carol concert last Saturday, in a deconsecrated church, now used as a stained glass centre. The place was full. I have had a card from my parish church informing me of service times at Christmas.

DD is a television subtitle. Recorded programmes can be subtitled in advance, but news, Christmas services and a range of other services need to be subtitled as they happen so they are another group who work over Christmas. Fortunately she is always willing to work Christmas Eve until required, usually midnight or slightly later. Her car sits ready and the moment her shift is over, she drives over to us arriving about 1.30am. She will also work New Years Eve and New Years day and a s a result she has managed, so far to always get Christmas Day, but there is no guarantee whether this will continue.

BBbevan Wed 21-Dec-16 17:05:37

Thank you Gillyanne from a Christian who has a Muslim DDiL and GDs.

Lewlew Wed 21-Dec-16 16:48:02

Shalom Gillyanne!

All christians do not celebrate...eg Jehovah Witnesses.

Gillyanne Wed 21-Dec-16 16:21:02

Speaking as a non-christian ..
I wish you all a very Happy Hanukkah .. and when I light the 1st of my 8 menorah candles on the 24th and say the lighting prayers , i will wish you all Health and Happiness for the coming year and a blessing on all your family's for a safe future.

Witzend Wed 21-Dec-16 15:53:11

There was surely a Midwinter festival here before the country became Christian. So it seems to me that Christmas has always been part pagan. The holly and Ivy, Yule log, etc. all date back to pre Christian times I think. In Sweden they still call it Jul (Yule).

It's noticeable that in Mediterranean countries, where presumably they didn't have so much need of a big feast and knees-up to cheer up the bleak Midwinter, Christmas is not nearly such a big thing as it is in colder Northern Europe.

As for Nativity plays, etc., from all I hear, a good many schools still do these.