Poppy dillemma

Luckygirl, I am so please that you had the strength of your convictions. When you have opinions, even if you think you are in the minority, the chance is that someone has the same opinion, but is also afraid to speak out.

I think that wearing poppies has become something of a fashion accessory rather than a mark of respect. The homemade ones are often quite flamboyant. I also wonder if the ones wearing their knitted ones, or the same enamel brooches each year, have contributed to the fund or just like to look as if they have!

Cherrytree59 - that is so so sad. I am not surprised you were in tears.

* kittylester* - thanks for this.

It all makes me despair. I am surrounded by good kind people - how is it that en masse people become so confrontational?

I have altered my settings so that all posts are continuous not on separate pages - makes life easier, I find.

Thank you for the poem Lucky and really pleased it all worked out without acrimony.

A couple of years ago I visited the National Arboretum.
I came across a marble 'wavy' wall
On it were a few names of the dear men and women who had lost their lives in recent conflicts
I stood and cried
Not just for their loss
Their names were only a small part of the wall.
Why?
I cried because the biggest part of the wall was blank.

Waiting for future names to be added

So luckgirl the last line of your poem sums it up completely

Remembrance

Poppies line up in faded rows
Pinned to breasts that swell with pride.
Creaking limbs and crooked backs
Dusty comrades, side by side.

What is it then that they remember
This dwindling crew, this ragged band?
Can they still dredge up the picture
Of events long past, of another land?

And every year they make their way
From faded mansions, council flats
With demob suits and Brylcremed hair
Regimental ties and breast-clutched hats.

And children at school in straggling groups
Are torn from lessons scuffling and yawning
To listen to the tale of slaughter
And have their turn to share the mourning.

And what is this remembrance for
When nothing changes? Can it make sense
For lists of dead and former carnage
To meddle with their innocence?

And here the great and good and rich
Stand in line just as they ought.
Lowered heads and furtive glances
Seeking the best camera shot.

But it is they who bear the guilt
Of taking new young men to war
To feign the image of true statesmen
And make their mark on history's score.

And all around the towns and hamlets
Is touted yearly “Lest we forget”
But it is clear we have forgotten
For nothing new has happened yet.

Read that jud - thank you for posting it. I "did" Owen for A-level and his poetry is in a class of its own. It is very good at making clear the absence of glory in war; especially pertinent to the first WW as young men volunteered for some adventure as they thought and soon found out the reality.

A bit of my thinking does relate to this, and I have a different reaction to yours. Certainly when I was a child I felt there was a sense of glory in the remembrance celebrations - misplaced of course. And I find it hard to commemorate any war, as we have learned nothing over the ensuing years. Young men and women are still being sent to pointless wars that are instigated by their political masters, often for dubious reasons.

Please look at my post on the 'Remembrance' thread to see why I wear a poppy!

Thank you all for your thoughts on this situation, whether you agree with my feelings about it or not.

handmadedogsweaters - I understand your feelings on this. I am sure that you will be aware from my previous posts that I wish no disrespect towards those who suffered during the war and that my reasons were personal ones. My action was to respect my father and his memory, as I feel he knew far more than I did about what was an appropriate way to regard the conflict - he was there.

luckygirl a personal issue that you resolved and in doing remained true to yourself and helped others.

My FIL was also in Far East and never wore a poppy or accepted any of medals.
My Dh has since requested them.

Your post has made me think about what those young men (FIL early twenties) must have endured and also what they were ordered to do that was so awful, they could never talk about it afterwards.

I hope today you can reflect on just your concert and how it went

My father was in North Africa, and he too loathed the Remembrance Services and parades. Whether it was because he was a maverick or because he actually hated these ceremonies, I don't know. As a child and teenager, I attended all the cenotaph thingies, with my guides/brownies or whatever.
As an adult, I feel like you lucky, I have thought it through and feel that although I feel deeply for the fallen, the maimed and damaged, I don't see how a griefest can help. I am also extremely uncomfortable with the modern pressure to wear a poppy; the "if you don't wear one, you are against the armed forces" attitude. Very difficult situation.
Lucky I'm glad your concert went well and people respected your stand - well done

I think you should stand in the front row of the choir, just to show your disrespect towards the young men who fought and died for our freedom.

As a pacifist, I have never worn a red poppy in about 50 years - I was an active member of Cumbrians for Peace and PTC - physically supported a Conshie Objector friend who refused to pay the portion of his tax which went towards defence. - each year we took him to his court appearances, supported him with the inevitable bailiff action. But we did buy white poppies when we could get them.

Thank you Luckygirl for letting us know.

And as for those posts that appeared to be irrelevant - the layout of this board is such that newish people aren't always aware of the 'next' pages.

If you read the later posts you will see what happened at the event.

Explain to whoever is in charge what you have explained here and say you are happy to sing without a poppy or sit it out.

I am sure no one meant to put you in this position or cause you any upset. If you explain your actions is it is done with and you won't have this dilemma come up again next year.

Please don't suffer in silence I am sure your choir are lovely people and would want to support you in this.

I always give some money but do not wear a poppy.

I wear my poppy with pride as a very small to token to all those brave men and women who made the ultimate sacrifice so we could continue living here. They are whom we where the poppy for, their sacrifice was not in vain, we are eternally grateful to them.
So I don't think you should sing and be the he only person without a poppy, if you cannot go with the vote with good heart there is no point.

Good .....we must ALL stick to our principles whatever others think There are some things in my life I would never change for anyone and neither should you

I'm pleased you could hold to your beliefs, it sounds as if you encouraged one person to be open to your thinking and gave the other courage. Hope the concert was well attended and all went well. Wishing you a restorative sleep. You deserve it .

You were true to yourself

The concert is over - and I am done for and looking forward to a nice long sleep.

I did not wear a poppy and neither did several others. I was asked by two people why I was not wearing one. One listened attentively and expressed her understanding of my situation and feelings about it; the other said "I am so glad you are not wearing one; I felt pressured into wearing it and am not happy about it, as I never wear one." - so she took hers off as well.

I did explain to both that I respected the reasons that others choose to wear them.

my uncles and Dad all fought in the war ,they all came home damaged either mentally or physically ,NONE of them ever wore a poppy .I wear a white poppy because it fits my beliefs better and I've had some harrassement over the years because of it,I live close to the nuclear base at Faslane .Its MY choice and I wont let anyone bully me into wearing something I dont want to ...and neither should you.I was really angry to see photogaphs of fighter planes painted with poppies ...surely thats against the ethos of the poppy ....dropping bombs on people from a plane with a poppy painted on it is sickening .It has become a political symbol

My dad was in Burma, too, and never talked about it. He also never wore a poppy, although towards the end of his life he joined the Burma Star Association and went to their meetings. He said there weren't many left who remembered.

I also agree with the poster who said it is a personal decision and no-one should be forced to wear a poppy if they choose not to.

I have opted out of something I go to because it means getting involved with remembrance events.

If you feel you can, perhaps you could explain how you feel to the choir and see if they mind you not wearing one. If they do mind, if it were me I would opt out.

It seems that many people on here say they will be wearing a poppy for a parent or even more distant relatives so, in the same vein, why shouldn't luckygirl respect her father's feelings in the matter?