Poppy dillemma

Luckygirl, I am so please that you had the strength of your convictions. When you have opinions, even if you think you are in the minority, the chance is that someone has the same opinion, but is also afraid to speak out.

Well done Luckygirl you did so well. Not wearing a poppy is not as some have said disrespectful it is a personal decision and each remembers in their own way. The pressure to wear a poppy is getting worse.

I too never wear a poppy as I feel it glorifies war not just remembers it. It has become a commercial symbol which everyone feels compelled to wear or feel the odd one out.Where have white poppies gone? I haven't seen one for ages.

First, don't exclude yourself from the performance. You're allowed to dissent without being banished.

Isn't this a clear case for a white poppy? If you can't buy one, make one.

Respect Luckygirl So true that we remember in our own way. I have the greatest of respect for the fallen but not for the Politicians, the Crown and the Church, all on parade today but still taking no responsibility for the failure of diplomacy and glorification of war (remembering all the talk at the time that Mrs Thatcher had had 'her' war in the Falklands so Tony Blair had to have 'his' war too in the Middle East) that sent so many to their deaths. Also remembering the civilians who did not go to war but met their deaths, from bombing, in their own homes, the widows and many women left with the stigma of fatherless bairns, when their fiancees failed to return to marry them. Two generations lives blighted in one way or another and we have learned nothing - the carnage continues - not for the good of the ordinary people but for power, greed, one-up-manship of the powers that be - who also take little financial responsibility for the survivors of this folly, leaving their aftercare, rehabilitation and comfort to the charitable impulses of ordinary folk.

I will be remembering today, in my way, more in anger than in sorrow, with this picture and this song.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkqLcZKJdo4

I wear a poppy for my father who was in WWII as a young man. Hard to believe maybe, but this is the first year I have become aware of an argument opposing the wearing of the poppy.

I wear mine to remember those who gave their lives in two World Wars and in other conflicts since, so that we could live in freedom. I would not wish to glorify war in any way. I wish humankind could find another way to resolve conflicts.

Wear a white one ( I thought these were for objectors who were shot) or a purple one - for the animals who died- dogs, pigeons etc.
My own father was in Burma - on the railway & also Changi jail & he always wore a poppy so I do too but it is a very personal thing & you should not wear one if you feel strongly about it.
My Dada never spoke about his experiences until a year or so before he died.

I also want in our choir and an international choir, they wore red scarves around there waists our choir were given the choice of wearing a poppies and several people didn't wear one.
No one commented on them and I'm sure no one in the audience even noticed.
Go and sing and enjoy the evening poppies less.?

I always wear a small Poppy pin which I got from a Poppy Seller some years ago as I always lose the the paper ones, I also have a Buckley "sparkly" one which I wear if I go to a Remembrance Day Service.

I do contribute every year, the fact I have my own Poppy means I don't take the paper one, I also support the Royal British Legion throughout the year. Any purchases I make are through the RBL Shop.

I respect any-ones right to not wear a Poppy for personal reasons, my GD & Great-Uncle fought in the WWI, both coming back alive but they always wore a Poppy & attended Services.

DH feels very strongly about not wearing a poppy. His late father and uncle were in the Merchant Navy during the war and he feels that there isn't enough recognition for the contribution that merchant seamen made. His father was torpedoed twice but hardly ever spoke about it. A family member recently did some research and found that he was commended for saving lives in the sea with oil burning around him. The uncle drowned at the age of 18 when his ship was sunk. I don't really go along with his 'poppy' view but I have to sympathise with why he feels like this.

I decided to buy a Poppy brooch from the RBL shop because, like so many other people, I always lose the paper ones. I still put some money in the tin. I notice a lot more people wearing pins or brooches this year, including The Countess of Wessex and Theresa May.

I thought we lived in a democracy, and therefore decisions such as whether to wear a poppy or not were entirely up to the individual. It used to be like this once, but increasingly it seems to have become almost mandatory, and one feels very judged by not wearing one. Will they start issuing fines for non-wearers, or will it remain a subtle, but strong stigma?
I am personally dismayed by the fact that, after the end of the 2nd world war, so many other wars have been waged. There is an element of hypocrisy in commemorating the war dead, whilst adding to their number even to this day.

hicaz46, white poppies.

www.ppu.org.uk/ppushop/

They've stopped noticing me wearing one in my village. When we lived in York lots of people asked and joined. I used to carry postcards around with me to give to anyone who asked.

Bear in mind that there were families who had relatives that never returned. Your father did return.
Do you not think of the words 'there but for the grace of god go I?
Unless of course you find it hard to believe there is a god and if so why did he/she let these dreadful things happen.?

On the other hand there may be those who having had their loved ones return saying
Thank god my father /husband /son returned.

Having lost five relatives in the two world wars that gave such grief and hardship to my family, life goes on and I will never forget, but this does not stop me having great respect and giving my support for what is being done for the young veterans of today who with no thought for themselves lost limbs and still suffer trauma from recent conflicts.

sally I think most people know and understand the thinking behind the poppy and Remembrance Day. Most of us on GN will have had friends and relatives who fought, died or were injured in a war.

However, being emotionally blackmailed or peer pressured into wearing one is wrong. It only really means something special if people choose freely to do so. Otherwise it becomes rather hollow and meaningless if it is an expectation.

It is not a lack of respect not to wear a poppy. Many people do all kinds of things, quietly and unseen, that support war veterans. It may be that very first hand experience that makes it hard to be part of the more 'establishment' commemoration that is Remembrance Day and that should also be respected.

I tend to think more about those people who sent young men off to die and never went themselves.
I had family members who died in war. It made me want no more wars.
My brother was in the army and my sister. They are still alive but some of their friends aren't, killed in Northern Ireland, the first Gulf War, which tends to get forgotten about, and Aden, where we are now arming Saudi Arabia to kill young children, and training the Saudis to do it.
Knowing about war makes me want peace even more.

The white poppy is about reminding us that we have to work to make peace happen. The forces towards war are strong - the political and financial interests of the elites around the world. If we do not oppose the arms trade and badger our political representatives towards a more peaceful mindset then we will go on and on as we do now - one war after another.

Remembering those who suffered is one thing, but is hollow if it takes us no nearer peace.

There is an inherent danger when challenging the received wisdom of remembrance that you will be seen as insensitive or lacking in respect for those who suffered; but it is not disrespectful to suggest that as well as remembering we should recognise that nothing is changing - that the political will to stop war is not there. I am sickened by the sight of the "great and the good" bowing their heads at the cenotaph, whilst also supporting the arms trade; and taking us to war in THEIR name, not ours.

Actually, I think some political will to stop war is there. There is, according to data on ourworldindata.org (Max Roser et al), less war now than ever before, even though it sometimes doesn't seem like that. Societies are getting less warlike.

Never forget there were those prepared to die to allow the doom and gloomers who say it was all futile but are alive today to voice this opinion without fear of persecution.?

The first WW was futile. Not only that, but it created the conditions for the rise of German nationalism and led to the 2nd.

Interesting data bags - I am not sure that the political will for peace is strong enough to override the financial vested interests, and above all the fundamentalism that is on the rise.

Sarah it was WW1 that was a wasteful conflict. WW2 was supposed to stop persecution of minority groups and we were supposed to be fighting against dictatorship regimes that were the result of extreme attitudes. Sadly I can see patterns repeating.

Who celebrates the 25th December. Why?
What is special about that day ? Presents are exchanged,? greetings cards having been sent/given even to the next door neighbour who is seen possibly every day.

I do not buy and send cards or give presents on 25th December.
I do not know for what reason I should do this;

Point.
Why should I celebrate something I have no personal knowledge of.?
This does not however indicate that I am not a Christian.

Every November I buy a poppy and wear it with pride I also contribute to charities that support veterans of our armed forces. I stand in silence at eleven am on armistice day because that day ended a war where millions of men and women died that others might live.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWhOO9Q323Y

June Tabor singing Green Flowers of France. This is the last verse:

Now Willie McBride I can't help wonder why
Do those who lie here do they know why they died
Did they really beleive when they answered the call
did they really believe that this war would end wars
Forever this song of suffereing and shame
the killing the dying was all done in vain
for young Willie McBride it's all happened again,
and again, and again, and again and again

I wear a poppy and remember my three oldest uncles who were at the Somme (and miraculously all survived) and my dear Dad, a four year old boy in 1918 when his brothers came home, who was in WW2 as a gunner in the Eighth Army in North Africa. I don't think about the military parades, the sponsorship, or the wrangling, I just wear it to acknowledge them and thank them for what they suffered then and afterwards, and for fighting for my freedom to do as I wish. You must do as you wish too - people died to give us this freedom of thought and action.