What happened to manners?

I was on accrowded commuter train one evening, with many people standing, and has been lucky enough to get a seat. In those days I didn't look particularly disabled (though I am, and can't stand upright for more than around five minutes before needing to rest) and was only in my early fifties - still, I was glad I hadn't had to face asking for a seat. Imagine the sinking of my heart when I was accosted by a woman with a small child accosted me and asked me to move because 'my child needs to sit down'. Having been brought up to have to sit on a parental lap if there was no room for me to have a seat of my own, on the grounds that I was only paying a half-fare, and also that I must give up my seat when asked, I 'automatically' heaved myself up when asked, assuming that the child was unwell, and the mother sat down with her child on her lap. The child was clearly absolutely fine, and the mum settled down happily with her iPod. I was very grateful up to a young man who leapt up and gave me his seat when he saw me wilting (genuinely, not ostentatiously ... ), but I couldn't help wondering why the mum had picked on me, rather than my gallant young rescuer, or indeed the many other much younger passengers.

Since I no longer use the car for long trips, I feel fully justified in travelling first class to see my family. It isn't always quiet as some people still feel obliged to do deals or have long chats on the phone. However, the leg room is better and the seats marginally more comfortable than standard. And I usually can find someone to help me with my case.

#helpless old lady

Dior apart from talking with a mouth full, the table manners you mention are really table etiquette - it's not bad-mannered to hold your knife & fork in a certain way.

I was once on a public bus in Narbonne, France. A group of teenagers got on the bus. They were tatooed, with shaved heads and I was very wary when I saw them. But lo and behold! They sat quietly chatting among themselves and when they got off, every single one of them thanked the driver! I was flabbergasted, but since then I have found the French (at least in the rural part where I live) to be polite and friendly. Men will certainly get up from their seat in our local post office if there is a woman standing, it seems to be the norm here and it certainly makes for a very pleasant lifestyle.

It's nice to know that nothing has changed in 2000 years LSP. That being said, I jumped on a bus in Glasgow and was just about to head off upstairs when a very kind young gentleman offered me his seat. It's the first time anyone has given up their seat for me. Oh how old I felt, ( I am 64).

I've found on the London tube that it's almost always young black men who offer me a seat. I imagine that they can hear their fierce Jamaican grannies, "Show some respect! Give the old lady your seat!"

I once went to a parents evening at my son's school. Saw the chemistry master. I had a fractured tibia and was on crutches. He didn't offer me a seat and I spent 7-8 minutes standing discussing my son's progress. Apparently he never offers parents seats to keep the appts to time but with me on crutches!! I thought he lacked any manners or care.

Drives me mad on buses round here - people plonking their bag on the seat next to them on a full bus and then pretending to be so engrossed in their phone that they haven't noticed people having to stand.
But it amazes me how many people just take it - won't just say, Excuse me, could you move your bag, please?
Yes, you might get a huff or a bit of eye rolling, but that's it. Never stopped me.

Never mind people who are clearly able bodied sitting in priority seats, and just sitting there when someone who clearly has mobility problems gets on. I have more than once pointed out to them (politely enough) that they need to move.

I do so agree about bad examples being given to children. On the same subject what has happened to table manners. I notice adults unable to hold their irons properly, talking with their mouth full and arms all over the table. I could go on and on - not setting flatware down between one mouthful and the next........ Despair sometimes!

I don't feel comfortable with sweeping generalisations because there are always exceptions. Some young people - and adults - are bad mannered and/or thoughtless, but I know very many who are not. My young adult sons could give many an elderly person lessons in good manners and that goes for when they were teenagers too.

I don't use Public Transport much as I hate buses, I walk with a stick & have difficulty standing up from a seat at my stop.

I do have to make an Annual journey from Devon to Yorkshire to visit my Mum (she is 87), I no longer drive as the journey is too long on my own, ok with someone to share the drive but as a widow I have no-one to share the journey.

I love travelling by train my only problem is getting my case on & off train but if no-one offers then I ask some-one to help, no-one has ever refused & many ask if I'm ok on my own once off train. Young people often offer to help before I have to ask.

My other bugbear is people who don't say thank you if you hold a door open for them - I always say thank you no matter what age or gender they are. Manners cost nothing.

Don't get me started on people sitting in reserved seats!!!!

Also bags etc on seats when people need to sit down grrrrr!

meandashy- I firmly believe every train should have a guard who patrols up & down!

A few weeks ago I came out of out patients dept at hospital on crutches. My husband went off to get car & I hobbled over to bus stop where there was some cover as it was raining. There were 2 really scruffy looking young men with large backpacks sitting on the first seats in the shelter who both leapt up as I approached & offered me a seat. I was totally shocked to be honest. Just goes to show you can't go by appearances.As I had been sitting down for ages & was actually very glad to be standing which I explained but thanked them for their kindness. It's sad though that I was surprised.
When they started talking I realised they were Eastern European of some sort- not familiar with languages from that area. I did wonder if it would have been the same if they had been local lads- I hope not.
My older grandsons (10 & 12) always offer their seats without any prompting from me I'm glad to say.

That's awful Meandashy they were probably all drunken morons.

I was travelling home after a short break with my granddaughter. I had booked seats and we sat down for our journey. The table seats in front had a woman & two younger men travelling together & a young man not part of their party. They were drinking, loud & obnoxious. The three of them started making lude comments to this poor lad , suggesting he was gay etc. He got up & moved. They then started listing all the depraved words they could think of loudly. I asked politely if they would stop as there was a small child with me. They refused then began to mock me. They picked on my size and were suggesting I wasn't a good grandparent because I thought eating my lunch was more important than finding a game on my phone for the wee one to play (I'm diabetic ). It was awful, 3 hours of abuse , not directly to me but about me. Nobody stuck up for me at all & there was nowhere to move to & no guard on the train that I saw. When they got up at the station before mine I was glad but sadly they were just readying themselves for my stop. The female in the group fell over she was so drunk. After they had moved to the doors other people in the carriage then said 'oh aren't they awful' etc. I cried when I got home and was upset for days. I now avoid long train journeys. ?

The thing that annoys me most is seeing parents teaching children bad manners, for example they get on an underground train where only 2 seats are free and tell their children to sit down even when many others including themselves are standing.

And don't get me started on table manners. Non existent to the younger generation. Yuk!!!!!

I always challenge feet on seats on the basis "you don't know where they've been, dog pooh etc". It usually works.

But isn't this a sad sign of the times. Please, thank you, sorry and excuse me have disappeared, and if you say something the looks are fit to kill.
Bugbears of mine are not only feet on train seats and not giving up the seat but those who plonk their baggage on the seat next to them and glare when asked if they could remove it so you could sit down. In supermarkets when you put the next customer sign on the belt and there is not a word of thanks, when I say thank you it is a pleasure to be told you are welcome and a smile but mostly its a blank look or glare as if you were not asked to do it in the first place.
I could go on!!

LumpySpacedPrincess that's priceless!!!!!

When I was 50 I was really embarrassed when a young woman offered me her seat on a London bus! It made me feel old. I remember as a teenager, an elderly man used to sit at the bottom of the stairs on the bus. He would leer up girls skirts as they went upstairs! Creep.

On one train journey a selfish disorganised woman and her bag took the seats reserved for a woman with two or three children under 5, refusing to move. Initially the poor parent backed down and squashed into another set of seats. When the children couldn't see out of the window, she politely asked again for her own seats, and it was only when I got assertive and interfered, telling the women the seats were reserved by the family, so shift out, that she moved off down the carriage, in tears and complaining.

Good manners dont cost anything, as we have always been taught. In the Country where I live, giving up a seat for anyone is not done, however on public transport I have noticed people from "other countries" give up their seats for the elderly, such a pleasant change.

My grandson Kai has just turned 2,when asked if his nappy needed changing he replied "no thank you Nana",manners alive and well in his world ?

Caroline you must ask. Just say quietly ".Is this seat free please?" They will.always take the bag off. You have paid for your ticket. Even if they glower, then they are being rude, not you.....Go for it girl. It is only fair.
Since I have had a stick people jump up all over the place, however I am more comfortable standing with my horrible hip.

Travelling on holiday last year we took the airport bus to the park and ride. Someone kindly put our bags up for us on the rack and then someone else helped us off and offered to take them to our car. We were quite taken aback though pleased that people were being so kind but we did not feel we looked that old .