Is it really assault?

You are quite right grumppa!

kitty to to be clear, I was not in any way implying your husband is not good at his job. Anyone working in a difficult care environment will have a certain amount of judgement in their roles. Nobody wants to be completing unnecessary paperwork.

My point is to do with the basic OP about whether or not assault the correct term to use. My answer is yes, but it should be qualified as appropriate. Remember the information comes from NHS Protect and is about NHS staff. The reports also stresses that staff should not just "think it is part of the job".

My son did part of his psychiatric nurse training at both Broadmoor and Rampton, as a nurse, not a guard. Non damaging self defence techniques were part of the training. We are not talking dementia here but what we used to call 'mad' people who are now treated with as much respect as can practically be given. Avoiding violent attacks, not always successfully, was part of the job.

My daughter-in-law does work she loves at a boarding facility for 'difficult' children. She often comes home with bruises and bite marks covering her arms. Her view is that the children didn't meant to hurt her and that someone has to look after them.

I think they are saints, but they take it in their stride. As someone else in this thread said, the people who can't take it should do something else.

I suspect, kitty, that your husband is old enough and wise enough to exercise his own judgement.

I agree with trisher that the crux is that the incident, assault, whatever you want to call it, is recorded.
It's not a judgement on the patient, or used to instigate proceedings, but simply to put into context the task that the healthcare worker was trying to do.
Nurses, doctors, dentists, physios etc all have standards to meet.
Anything that compromises those standards should be recorded, to protect the professional standing of the HCW.
For example, a patient with dementia might well decide they don't want to take their medication, and hit out at the HCW trying to administer it.
Unless this is recorded, it would be assumed that the HCW wasn't doing their job properly and was failing to ensure the medication had been taken.
I agree with jane10 I'm afraid Kitty, that by not recording these incidents your DH is making things more difficult for anyone who takes over the care of his patients, because they're not getting a full picture of how cooperative or otherwise the patient might be

kitty NHS, care homes and secure units are all required to record assaults. This is for all the reasons already mentioned. He's not doing anyone any favours by 'sucking it up'!

It may go with the territory kitty, but it is still important information about a person's behaviour. As I said before, we are probably only hearing the headline about the statistics. I'm sure every assault recorded will have further details about the circumstances. For one thing, how do you measure whether or not a patient's behaviour is getting worse, particularly where there is no continuity of care?

Assault is an emotive word, but it just means a physical attack. The circumstances are relevant, but it is still assault.

They are incidents not assaults imo and, going back to the op, recording assaults by bewildered, confused and/or demented patients is just plain stupid unless it is extreme. It goes with the territory.

Strangely enough help and understanding are more likely to be forthcoming if a proper record of someone's behaviour is kept. It isn't being judgemental it is just recording incidents, call them incidents if you wish, but not reporting or recording them helps nobody. It is no different to recording a physical symptom and should be regarded in exactly the same way.

Isn't this yet another case of the news media saying things for effect?

I'm not suggesting it is called anything. It is bad behaviour by troubled people who require help and understanding not labels.

If you are hit in the face by a flying brick, or hit by a chair thrown across the classroom it is assault. It is dangerous both for staff and other children it must be properly recorded and dealt with. What are you suggesting it should be called?

Bad behaviour cannot be tolerated but surely 'assault' is part of a bigger picture and shouldn't be singled out.

Yes kittylester because at some point someone has to set boundaries. I'm not suggesting that they be prosecuted but they certainly need help and if the assault isn't treated seriously they are unlikely to get any.

So, if they are troubled children, is it fair to accuse them of assault?

I have reread my posts and at no time did I suggest that dh has a care home, works in a Care home or, even, lives in one.

He works for the nhs but is self employed. He visits care homes, secure units, hospitals and any other people who cannot easily access services. The people he treats are often demented, confused and distressed. Anyone doing his job would expect to meet similar conditions and logging incidents would be a complete waste of time. As it is, no one else in this (very wide) area does what he does.

Eirel I wouldn't compare the upset children of some years ago with some of the children now entering reception classes,there may be some who are kicking because they are upset/need a cuddle, there are others who are deliberately kicking or throwing things at staff because they know it hurts. In some cases it is most definitely assault. They are very troubled children and more and more of them are appearing in schools.

kitty unless your DH is his own boss, does he not at least keeping a record of physical and verbal 'incidents'? If he's not bothered about protecting himself from accusations (and he may well feel like that), surely you can see why others should be aware of the situations that crop up in his work? What if he was unable to attend his patients/clients and someone else had to take his place? I'm not trying to pry, just agreeing that given the way this discussion has developed, it was a reasonable assumption to make that your DH worked in a care home, or at least in a care giving environment. My neighbour works as a carer for someone, staying with them for two 24 hour periods every week. He still has to follow strict guidelines about his and his client's safety.

To go back to the 50% of assaults figure, this is probably just the top level of information. I'm sure the data will be broken down into the kind of assault, which at the end of the day just means someone got hurt. The 50% will be broken down into categories and subcategories, according to the circumstances. That probably doesn't make much of a headline though.

I also disagree about the calibre of today's nurses. In general they are far better trained to deal with the challenges of the job than years ago. What is a problem is health assistants being used to replace the old RENs hasn't worked out very well. Plus of course, the issue of using so many agency staff creates so many problems. There's always been lazy people in hospitals and I can't imagine that changing any time soon because it's just human nature.

I made the same assumption as Jane10 It did sound as though he worked in a care home.

Bez, we can ask personal questions, but you don't have to answer them.

Similar to when I heard that teachers were 'being assaulted by pupils as young as 4'. Shock horror reaction initially, which rapidly subsided when I realised I had only ever been assaulted by reception class children. I just hadn't thought of upset small children trying to kick, punch or bite me (and sometimes getting a blow or kick in) as assault. As far as I was concerned I was restraining them and getting on with the lesson. This was many decades ago I hasten to add. Not many TAs then so I'd remove child's shoes, tuck him/her under my arm and get on with teaching.

We cant ask personal questions on here
Jane10.

Assumptions are very dangerous Jane. Why would you assume that?

Sorry kitty you had said that he works with dementia patients so I assumed it was in a care home. Where does he work?

I agree that these incidents should be recorded just in case of any problems that the person on the receiving end has further down the line. But I don't think they should be recorded as assaults,if the person has dementia,and/or they are frail and elderly. I don't see how a person who has dementia could be prosecuted for this sort of thing.