Is it really assault?

Er, my husband doesn't have a care home.

The management of your husbands care home should be recording 'incidents'. They should have a clear system for this. The Care Quality Commission would be interested. There are such clear implication regarding staffing levels and training that brushing this under the carpet amounts to negligence.

My husband's only recourse would be reporting to the police. Sledge hammer and nut come to mind. People with advanced dementia are not going to benefit from any sort of intervention.

In law, you need two factors for anything to be called an assault. The men's rea which is the guilty mind and the actus reus which is the guilty act. Many elderly people won't have both factors for it to be an assault and I very much doubt that any hospital would be able to make it stick.

Perhaps Kittylester's husband is a dentist. That would explain the frequency of the occurrence and his attitude.

SueDoku, I agree with what you say, please don't generalise about such a large group of people. Sadly the issues reported in the media tend to be about the problems and all the good care goes unreported.
Injuries should never be seen as an occupational hazard, staff need to report them and receive training in how to deal with such incidents. There will always be such issues when working with people with mental health problems and sadly these carers have the least funding and training it seems.

He may be fine about that kittylester but the next person may not. The likelihood of a patient biting should be recorded for all the reasons given above. Its not OK to be bitten in the course of your work.

DH is quite regularly bitten in rhe course of his work but reports it to no-one and sees it as an occupational hazard.

Hooty while I am extremely sorry about the sub-standard care that your mother received, making sweeping generalisations is never a good idea. The nurses of today are as varied a group as those of yesterday - and they have to contend with more bureaucracy and paperwork on one shift than a nurse would have handled in a month 20 years ago - with the threat of disciplinary action (or even losing their career) if any box is left unticked or form unsigned.
As with so many other professions (e.g. teaching) the paperwork is destroying the purpose of the job that they trained so hard for.
Many nurses are also finding themselves caring for patients with dementia when they actually trained for another role - a consequence of an ageing population plus the closure of many geriatric wards. They are very aware that they need specialist training - but this is not seen as a priority...
Add to this the ever-present danger of being injured by a patient (usually not deliberate) or a relative (always deliberate) and you will see why nurses are leaving the profession in droves.

Not only are care staff paid poorly, they get little or no training. I went into being a carer with no previous experience and no training, as did my colleagues. The only training course I went on was for food safety, and that was because it was a legal requirement.

Hooty I could write a book about the poor conduct of nurses and doctors in 20 years of being a carer for elderly relatives. Some are poor ignorant hopeless types some are downright vicious. After 20 years of it I am now an invalid and before I would subject myself and my kids to what happened to me and my elders I will be at Dignitas.
NHS Scotland demand that you dont abuse their staff what about their staff abusing and vuctimising patients and carers. They dont even deal with it when matters are reported to them. I watched a nurse abuse and vilify a young mum in our new flashy sick kids only a few weeks ago.

Most care home staff are payed minimum rate, I was.

SPF the separate wards is great in theory but we all know it will never happen. No space, no staff etc.
To be fare there are a lot of dementia patients who cause no problems other than needing extra personal care or help with eating and drinking.

I would say that it is an understandable, unavoidable hazard of the job of working with the aged population and the staff should be tolerant, patient and accept that this is part of their job, but their pay-packet should compensate for this.

Sugarpufffairy I wholeheartedly agree with you about earning respect not demanding it. My experience of nurses is contrary to the 'Angels' they are seen as, lazy is more like it. These degree educated nurses are not like the 'old school' they just want to sit doing paperwork and don't want to get their hands dirty. Neglected my poor dying mother, left in a side room sitting in diarrhoea- dispiccable and I will never forgive them.

I was visiting an elderly relative who was mentally capable but physically completely unable. During a visit a man in his 80s, possibly with dementia stripped naked and was shouting and swearing. While I realise that this could be part of an illness I do not see why I or any other females on the ward or visiting the ward should be subjected to such conduct. The person I was visiting was horrified that I was subjected to a naked man while visiting. Another female relative had as a teenager been sexually abused by an older man. That female is now in a job where subduing unruly persons is commonplace. Luckily she never saw what was going on.
I have always said that dementia patients should be treated on a different ward from physically limited patients. I was scared to leave my relative alone on a ward where nothing was done about this situation
As for nurses demanding to be respected, they have that wrong. You dont demand respect you earn it. I have seen too many failed discharges to have any respect.
SPF

I agree with Jaycee5, 'unintentional injury' seems a rational way of defining an action caused by someone not in full control of their mental faculties.

Empathy is what is called for here both for the poor staff who endure mental and physical injuries and for the perpetrator of attacks who is rendered blameless by means of incapacity of understanding.

I would have thought it a prerequisite of working in the care sector for those whose mental capacity is diminished is that they should be aware of the possibility of a patient lashing out. If they cannot deal with this then they should work in another sector. Of course, this might well diminish the workforce which would be a disaster.

Maybe there could be a different word used

I think they should be recorded as 'unintentional injury'. They are obviously not assaults in the criminal sense as there is not the necessary intent and it does give a false impression and is unfair on people who, when fully sentient, would never have hurt anyone. I suppose assault is quicker to write and may be helpful, for example in arguing for more security staff.

As I am reading these comments it made me reflect on the behaviours of young children I have worked with, and also my DH who can get quite stroppy with people who he feels are not doing their job properly. I think the term 'assault' needs to be explicitly defined. I suspect its one of those words in our vocabulary where the meaning has evolved. I shall be pondering this today.

A physical assault, is assault regardless of the mental state of the attacker. Yes they do need to be recorded, along with the circumstances.
Having worked in a care home and been assaulted, you are in a worse position as you cannot defend yourself as you would in a normal assault situation.

In my opinion these things have to be recorded so that evidence can be put in front of management and government ministries for the need for more staff and better training. If the staff keep 'managing' then improvements will be avoided to save money

Of course they should be reported as assaults. It is important that staff know they are protected and respected.The person responsible may or may not be conscious of how they are behaving but that shouldn't be taken into account when reporting the event. Of course when deciding what action should be taken it is vital that this is considered.
Incidentally it is now also considered assault if a carer or nurse attempts to wash or groom a patient without their consent.

What about people who are drunk or under the influence of illegal drugs? They nay not realise the full implications of what they are saying or doing. Is that different from dementia except for the fact it is self-inflicted confusion?

Agree jane10

If it's verbal assault, it's not really. As they don't know what they're saying. Physical assault is assault but not criminal assault, as again, they can't be held responsible for their actions. You would like to think staff are properly trained and enough of them to cope if someone is suffering with dementia but very strong. It's not a job for the faint hearted for sure. The staff have my admiration. It must be difficult to keep your temper when people are yelling insults and trying to hit you. Sometimes, as has been reported in the press, they don't. Then they are up for criminal assault. It's a complicated business and a difficult job.