Have you made your mind up about the referendum?

Yes. Mind made up. Regardless of all the hype for staying or leaving.

dh - I was agreeing with POGS premise that the riots in France are in opposition to the labour reforms.

Petra wrote: "I was living in Bulgaria when they went into the eu in 2007. They had many excellent catering and restaurant staff. Come 2007 many of them left to go to Spain/Italy/Uk. Some restaurants went out of business because of this.
I'm probably the only person on here who has been to Albania. If you think that Bulgaria is poor, it makes Albania look like utopia. There isn't much to be said for this country but if/when it joins the eu and the educated and skilled people leave it will be awful.
There's one thing I can tell you that will happen: The rich will get richer as they did in Bulgaria thanks to YOUR money."

Wow. That is a really interesting insight Petra. I honestly do not see how poor European countries add anything to the European Union, IF it is a trading union. (Someone please tell me how we will benefit from Albania joining?)

However, if it's becoming a POWER BLOCK, which it is, with leaders unknown, that's a very different picture. It's acquiring territory.

I see our democracy and rights to do what is best for Britain going completely down the drain. Albanians will leave for the UK, for France, for Germany, for Sweden. For us, that would be a bit like the biggest and most luxurious hotel in Dubai offering us a penthouse suite for lifetime use. We'd jump at the offer.

I cannot blame poor people for migrating but the melting pot that is being created in Europe, without any clear leadership, is open to such corruption. As we've seen, Cameron has no influence, no clout. He couldn't get his reforms passed. Is that worrying or what???

Who will be guiding us in the future? Who will be telling us what we in the UK must do?

Who knows.

I'll bet it is

*Someone whose life is charmed.
*Someone who doesn't live in the multicultural suburbs of Britain.
*Someone who can afford first class travel.
*Someone who has private medical treatment
*Someone who doesn't know what it's like to use public transport.
*Someone who doesn't send their children to state schools
*Someone who is wealthy

So, any one of our politicians perhaps?

OR

*Someone who enjoys all the above privileges but works in Brussels or Strasbourg and has no connection whatsoever to the UK.

The referendum is our chance to say NO to that. We have to cherish our democracy.

If that's all, may as well toss a coin - or not vote as I do not care for either of your people.

In a democracy you can get rid of the government any time you want to, not just every five years. When Cameron came to power he changed the rules to every five years, aided by the Libdems, who wanted to be in power for as long as possible.

The present climbdown by Cameron on a vote tomorrow is because if he lost the vote there would be a vote of no confidence in his government. He would lose at present.

durhamjen - In a democracy you can get rid of the government any time you want to, not just every five years.

Well, if we were being asked to decide if we wanted to stay in the European Union for the next five years, it might put a different complexion on things. However, we aren't, and I (and many others it would seem) just don't know who is in charge of the EU, so to speak. It's supposedly a joint endeavour, but who heads up the EU?

Where is the democracy, because I don't see how I could object to EU rulings because I wouldn't know where to address my concerns. The one MEP who represents my bit of the UK isn't likely to have any clout, if Cameron is powerless.

My one MEP is sitting alongside Germans, French, Polish, Lithuanian, Bulgarian, Slovakian, Estonian, Latvian etc etc etc representatives deciding what the UK has to

Is little old me going to be able to say to any of them "Hang on a minute, why should that happen in the UK?" and have my concerns heard?

I appreciate that British politics is the same. I can talk to my MP but I have little influence on what the government decides in any given situation. I can protest, but democracy is a strange beast. It allows me my say, but even a whole host of protesting people won't sway a government unless it has some sort of leverage or authority.

I feel we have lost our power and our way if we allow a body of unknown Europeans to insist on a uniformity we have to abide by.

We are objecting already to so many EU directives. The referendum is going to be our last chance to make a difference and for our objections regarding the EU to be noted and acted on.

The referendum is a democratic process and a real bit of UK democracy. We must value it and I dearly hope we turn our backs on the EU, for good.

That's not true, Day6. You cannot just have one MEP for your area.
There are twelve constituencies and even the smallest has three. That's Northern Ireland. Wales has four. London has eight. Scotland and Yorkshire have six each.

Cameron has more clout than many of the other leaders because he makes himself a nuisance. However, they all have vetos, no matter how big or small their country.

No, still considering the pros and cons, but then, I do have a tendency to spend so long sitting on the fence that I get splinters on my bottom!

"You cannot just have one MEP for your area.
There are twelve constituencies and even the smallest has three. That's Northern Ireland. Wales has four. London has eight. Scotland and Yorkshire have six each."

That's hardly comforting.

Our MEPs never put their heads above the parapet. They are virtually unseen and unknown, and as to what they get up to on the continent, who knows? Unless I make it my mission to stalk them, they work pretty much anonymously, and maybe, not in my interests.

If cctv footage of the working lives of MEPs and their influence was made available, I imagine most of us would be outraged. Given their salaries and perks, it would make for very interesting viewing I suspect.

There is no accountability.

There will be no need for them if we decide to leave the EU.

europarltv.europa.eu/en.aspx

You can watch them, just as you can watch our own parliament. I quite often do watch ours, but only European if I know there is something I am interested in like TTIP or anything to do with the environment.

Still not sure. It is such an important issue. We must get it right at all costs.

Still not sure. It is such an important issue. We must get it right at all costs. hmm

I have yet to see Brexit, The Movie on YouTube, but it is well worth a view apparently for those who aren't sure which way to vote.

(So I've been told by someone whose understanding of current affairs and politics I respect.)

No. (I wish we didn't have two threads on the this)

Gangy 5 - "The likes of Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy are all suffering whilst they see others are prospering. Why is it that the EU is looking to pull in more of the poorer Eastern European nations??. Ultimatelty, this has to be a recipe for disaster."

I completely agree Gangy.

In acquiring the likes of desperately poor Albania, and ensuring EU finance is in place to allow it to happen, (we are paying for poor eastern European countries to access the EU) one must ask what is going on?

The EU is no longer a trading union. It is working to become the United States of Europe. It's about land mass and territory and power. That can be the only explanation, unless someone can explain how the EU benefits from encouraging exceedingly poor migrants to seek a future in the UK, France, Sweden etc.

It would seem the EU's mission is to open borders and share the spoils of established nations with the people of regions that have nothing, rather than making those regions more stable and keeping populations in place. This is encouraging migration, no two ways about it.

The EU encourages interdependency and migration. If all of a sudden you have thousands upon thousands of people accessing services, education, health care etc, it stands to reason that everyone suffers when services creak under the strain of trying to cope. How exactly are our families getting a good deal if that happens?

Wouldn't it make more sense to build schools, hospitals, factories and transport systems in Albania rather than encouraging Albanians to come here?

Perhaps it's all about anarchy in the UK? There are bodies that would welcome the collapse of established systems

I don't know of any schools or hospitals or bus depots or stations being built locally, or in my region of the UK. It would seem the existing system will have to serve more and more people when in fact the people needing a better life ought to be able to have it in their own country, if the nations of Europe really are philanthropic. They are not. The EU is promoting destabilising of all we hold dear.

It would seem Osborne and Cameron's scaremongering is bogus and biased. (Mainly because they have vested interests in staying in the EU - like power, position, pay and wealth)

Iain Duncan Smith has hit back at Osborne's forecasts regarding economic doom and gloom should we leave the EU.

He pointed out the Treasury was stripped of its role in economic forecasting six years ago because its record was so poor.

The former work and pensions secretary, who quit the Cabinet in March, said: 'This Treasury document is not an honest assessment but a deeply biased view of the future and it should not be believed by anyone.

'It is a fact that we hand over £350 million a week to the EU.

'If we vote to leave we can take back control of that money and use it to help people here in Britain.'

1

Ive just come back from a trip to Spain visiting friends who live and work there.
A lot of Eastern Europeans are leaving Spain. When asked why, they said higher wages and benefits.

Where are they heading for? (or do I not need to ask...?)

Did you see the Vote Leave broadcast this evening? Blatant scaremongering....

And lies!! The film they showed of the NHS was just silly.

No, you don't need to ask, Ana When asked "why not France?" They said it's difficult to work illegally in France if they needed to.

The fact that it is not too difficult in UK is the fault of the UK govt not the EU but Cameron has negotiated a four year delay in paying any benefits with the new deal which has been agreed. That should take away some of the desire to move to UK.

Welshwife They don't believe you when you tell them what's happening. They insist: " No, you are wrong, my friend gets this and this"

Also there's the fact that they speak the language.

Yes, Pittcity, I hope the ASA gets involved in that Vote Leave broadcast. They have been told time and time again that those figures are wrong. I can imagine fullfact reporting them to the electoral commission.

fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-and-nhs-staff/

A fact report on NHS staff from the EU.