little Englander

I don't understand why English people complain that they have been asked not to display their flag on St. George's day, just do it.

I think the problem stems from the EDL and their like who have used it for political /racist reasons which is so wrong

And I am not letting this opportunity pass - there should be a dragon on the union flag , so there

Sorry, BY Chelsea fans on the Paris Metro.

Speaking of bad behaviour, when I was first working up in London the Scots at times descend on our capital for football matches and they would rampage around London in a truly appalling manner, drunk, loud, abusive. Many, like myself were terrified when they came down and yes I know English fans don't cover themselves in glory either. Loutish behaviour is bad enough in the louts' own backyard, but worse when it's exported imo

like the racist abuse of Chelsea fans on the Paris Metro, for instance? (Last year, well publicised on YouTube)

I also find some football fans quite intimidating eg on the train home from London on a Saturday evening if their club maybe Luton, or perhaps a Premiership side from further up the Virgin West Coast line, has had an away match in the capital, but to characterise Scottish fans as "louts" is a bit much! Not many Scottish clubs play in London (different leagues or something) and there is not the same tradition of internationals as in the Six Nations Rugby
Frankly I find your comments offensive prejudiced and judgemental and an appalling over-generalisation of Scots' behaviour.
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Rather late in the day to reply on the subject of bridge tolls. - yes, it is a long way round on not particularly good roads to travel from England to Wales to visit a point 2.5 miles away and within waving distance! All the way up to Gloucester and back down again is about 61 miles.
But it is not the occasional visitor who has the problem, it is the people who travel to work - both ways (should they swap homes?) - and the lorries transporting goods and essentials to Wales (£19.80 per trip).

The tolls began in 1966 set up by the Labour Government and is set in legislation. This Government has promised to halve it in two years' time. The bridges are owned by the Severn Crossing plc as part of the deal to build the Second Severn Crossing.

AB - I would just like to say that the man who offered his stupid opinion to you was a rude oaf and should have minded his own business. It does in fact remind me of a family holiday years ago when we were driving through France and stopped off in Poitiers for lunch. We ordered our coffees, drinks and baguettes in our not fantastic French, but nevertheless made ourselves understood. Behind us in the queue were an English family who made no attempt to even try to speak French and ordered everything in English and then got snotty when the cafe owners looked put out. So yes you are always going to get people from dare I say it all four corners of Britain who do think the English language will take them anywhere and I agree it's possibly laziness or an arrogance. When I have visited Wales, I expect to hear people speaking Welsh and like anywhere else respect Wales and it's customs and it's desire to keep an old language alive by using it in tandem with English, or possibly exclusively. There will always be those that go to another country and behave badly but hopefully they don't represent all of us and I personally don't want to feel I have metomorphosized into Edward I when I visit Wales.

Speaking of bad behaviour, when I was first working up in London the Scots at times descend on our capital for football matches and they would rampage around London in a truly appalling manner, drunk, loud, abusive. Many, like myself were terrified when they came down and yes I know English fans don't cover themselves in glory either. Loutish behaviour is bad enough in the louts' own backyard, but worse when it's exported imo.

Turning to the St George flag controversy, there have been reported occasions, hopefully a few, but they hit the headlines, where people have been asked to not display our national flag or Union Jack for "fear" of upsetting others. I remember recently reading about plans to celebrate the Queens birthday and some councillor or other, can't remember where, asked "please can we not have Union Jack bunting" which of course was met with a backlash. These daft English people take it upon themselves to interpret the voice of non indigenous, who usually stand up and say that they do not have a problem with the national flag, Christmas or anything else that is inherently British and those that appoint themselves as arbitrators of what is acceptable as far as patriotic displays are concerned, unleash a hornet's nest of resentment. Anyone who has visited say France and America for example, will know that both these countries display their flags everywhere, and why not?

Personally I think that there is a difference between the individuals of a country, and collectively as a country. Not sure where I am going with this point. We know that a lot of North Koreans want to leave because as a nation it is ruled badly

I haven't the faintest where you are going with this threadpoint either.

Does a Scot think they are superior? I would have thought there are some who think that. There must be Scottish people who want to speak Scottish?
And what language were you thinking of there obieone??

Eloethan. I didnt say you. And I have no idea if you are English born or not.

Your other point though. I am not sure how St George's day would be celebrated[I myself dont even know what date it is] without flags?

North Korea.
Personally I think that there is a difference between the individuals of a country, and collectively as a country. Not sure where I am going with this point. We know that a lot of North Koreans want to leave because as a nation it is ruled badly.
Is Britain, as a nation, allowed to think of themselves as superior to the nation of North Korea?

obieone You have no right, and no reason, to say that I don't like England - and it is the usual sort of slur that people reel out when they have no substantive points to make on a subject.

I am very glad that I live in the UK and I believe I try to contribute to it in practical ways, rather than waving flags around in a demonstration of so-called patriotism.

grumppa , the interviewer did say British law then corrected himself and said English law , so Wales and N.Ireland are either lawless or are under English law ,

Café Latte with a soupçon of crême de noisette and Chantilly please!

Me: small Americano Reply: do you want milk with that? me: hmmm NO!

Was the Newsnight interviewer asking about English law, which is different from Scots law, or about law in the UK?

Just asking...

Oh wow, I would have given him a piece of my mind ...in several languages. Pouncy idiot!

I'll be cheering on every good sportsperson at the Olympics, obi, whatever their nationality.

Not being proud to be British doesn't mean one is ashamed to be British. It means that you just accept you are British by an accident of fate and that you would be just as unproud and unashamed to be anything else.

And that you would like the good parts of your native culture and dislike the bad parts.

It's all very straightforwrd really.

Yes, bloody annoying, what a twerp. Placing your order was your own business, not his. Some of the things people order in trendy cafes sound as though they are in another language anyway.

It would have been different if you and friend had looked straight at him, said in Welsh to one another something like, "What a fat stupid idiot!" and laughed - he would still not have understood it, but the general meaning would have been rude and obvious.

I speak Welsh , how bloody annoying to be in a coffee shop in Wales giving my order to a Welsh friend and being told by an English man sitting at a table that I was being rude and should speak English

Does a Scot think they are superior? I would have thought there are some who think that. There must be Scottish people who want to speak Scottish?

As far as I know, I dont know anyone who thinks England is the UK. Far from it.
I would imagine that there are English who think they are superior to other countries. Just as there are in all countries of the world.

Harm done by England to the rest of the UK - another thread I would have thought. Who is going to start that one? Not me I dont think. I dont know enough.

A little Englander is not an English person who loves England

A little Englander is an English person who thinks England is the UK, who still thinks they are superior to other countries , who thinks everyone should speak English , who will not accept the harm done by England to the rest of the UK , thry brush it aside with - that's living in the past ,

I ythink it is beginning to dawn on me that there are quite a number of English born people who really dont like England very much.
I presume that is true of all countries.

Will you be cheering on the British at the olympics Eloethan and thatbags?

Last night on Newsnight the Beeb interviewer asked a lawyer what she thought of English law ,

Well said, eloethan.

And, of course, there are just as many Little Elsewheres-ers (and Elsewhat-ers; people who think they are discriminated against for various reasons, when actually they aren't) as there are Little Englanders. Both are signs of victim mentality and negativity towards those who don't share the same 'qualities' of nationality or group membership.

Thank you for the clarification Anniebach, having a simplistic outlook on life I thought you were trying to lay the blame for the toll price purely at the feet of the Tories. Maybe it was me just imagining it?

There are people all round the world who think their country is the best and who would describe themselves as "patriotic".

Personally, I have no time for flag waving, celebrating St George's Day, St Patrick's Day or any other day that is set aside for a particular country. I'm not keen on great displays of supposed patriotism. I think there should be less boasting about who is the most patriotic, less flag waving and more actual doing. To my mind, it's just a matter of good manners and good sense to look after the place in which you live. In my view, this means being concerned about the state of the country as a whole and not just about what impacts on your own lives and families, your own part of the country, etc. etc.

I don't understand why some people are "proud" of being British. Being born in a country is just an accident of birth, not an achievement.

I don't know why some English people see themselves as victims of some sort of devious plot to prevent them from celebrating St George's Day (who's stopping them?) or saying that they are Christian (even though the Church of England holds a privileged position in our politcal system).

Who I would describe as a "Little Englander" is a person who thinks the world still revolves around the UK - and more particularly England - who is in a state of continual outrage about the supposed preferential treatment that everyone else is getting and who sees everything as a devious plot to undermine the "British way of life" .

Thank you Belladonna